Talk:Proto-Mayan

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[edit] working on a soundrules table

Continuing discussion started on Talk:Mayan languages. Here, i've done 5 lines to give an idea of what I mean. Later if Madman makes his spiffy color-coded language geneology tree, we could use those colors by column instead of red (and of course include that image over in this article. --Homunq 22:18, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

I have to say, I like my version better. Particularly for the *ŋ line, it gives the information in a way that yours doesn't. Also by showing the preserved as well as the changed sounds, it could help a non-linguist start to understand what the deal is with sound shifts. If you don't give me a counterargument, I will (eventually) put mine in (though I agree with you that "K'iche'an" was a mistake). Good job, though.--Homunq 05:59, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

You may be right it does look nice. The thing that worries me is that sometimes we will have to be very careful in order not to convey false information - because the rules in the sources that I am woring from only mentioned shared innovations for groups, this means that when one group shares a change that doesn't necesarrily leave the other languages unchanged, they may hve their own changes that aren't mentioned in my data. Also in your form of the table I think it would be better to show actual cognate words instead of just the phonemes. But I currently doen't have a cognate list for mayan that includes wastek - so i'll have to track down wastek cognates from other sources.Maunus 09:12, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Overview of soundrules from Proto-Mayan to modern Mayan language groups

Proto-Mayan	Huastecan	Yukatekan	Ch'olan	Q'anjobalan	Mamean	K'iche'an
w	b	w	w	w	w	w
*ho/*hu	wo,wu	ho/hu	ho/hu	ho/hu	ho/hu	ho/hu
*ŋ	h	n	n	n	x	x
*q,*q'	k,k'	k,k'	k,k'	k,k'	q,q'	q,q'
*-h	-h	-h	-h	-h	-h	-j Kaqchikel, Tz'utjil only

Overview of soundrules from Proto-Mayan to modern Mayan language groups

*e: > i, *o: > u raising of long mid vowels	Ch'olan
*a: > ɨ	Ch'olan, Yucatecan
*-t > -tʃ	Yucatecan
*ŋ > x	Quichean-Mamean
CVʔVC > CVʔC shortening of syllables with medial glottal stop	Quichean-Mamean
*r > t	Mamean
*r > j	Mamean
*t > tʃ	Mamean
*tʃ > tʂ	Mamean
*-ɓ > -ʔ/VCV_# In polysyllabic forms final implosive b became a glottal stop	Kaqchikel, Tz'utjil