Talk:Protest the Hero
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While quite comprehensive, this article is clearly biased at times and unencyclopedic. It's great that a fan of this band chose to put together the article, but it heaps on subjective praise where it should be objective. Avwhite 04:20, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
I took your comments to heart and tried to make much more factual, instead of opinionated, statements. Thanks for the advice. ~Bouyeeze, 20 November 2005.
I removed the link to The Spill Canvas' official webpage. It does not belong here, and since it is shown on spill canvas' wiki-article, it is even more natural to not post it here. I also jumbled up the edit about protest live a bit to make more sense and to be a bit more accurate. I saw them live at the pheonix concert hall and they were absolutley amazing...the best band ever!!!!.--Bouyeeze 04:53, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
I would disagree with the statement about them performing better live now than before. At the shows I've seen following the release of Kezia, it seemed that they'd been drinking, because the performances were (in general) worse than the Calculated Use of Sound days (and even a worse than some of the shows from the pre-EP days). - Jeridus 04:55, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
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[edit] Still somewhat biased / error in factuality
It is obvious that they claim to have influence from famous authors (Dostov?!) and even name one of their songs after a protaganist in his book (I am Dmitri Karamazov...) yet just because one can open a book and see a name doesn't mean that they can appreciate the intellectual brilliance of his works. The lyrics have no real hidden meanings, they are created for purely emotional employments. That being said, I like the sound of their music. Grow up boys.
-FM (Forgive my English, it is a third language)
protest the hero, and their bassist Arif in particular, have cited Fyodor Dostoevsky as an influence. Whether or not they have used his works to truly inspire their music can be debated, but it is a fact that they cite him. It's not my job to speculate whether they are lying or not. --Bouyeeze 22:20, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
Acutally, no. Arif really does derive a lot of inspirations from Dostoevsky. Here's proof From Canadian MTV's Headbanger's Blog:
"Walker explained. “He’s a literature master. When he was 17, he went to a [Fyodor] Dostoevsky symposium in Switzerland and was the youngest person to ever be invited to one of those."
Source: [1]
151.202.43.44 (talk) 22:14, 5 February 2008 (UTC) User without an account, but still wants to help.
[edit] Genre
I'm trying really hard to take into account all aspects of Protest the Hero's sound, and also abiding by the different genres' articles of wikipedia. I'm not sure if I've accurately described their sound...I'm especially unsure about calling them metalcore, however I do feel they have aspects of metalcore in their sound. If anybody has any comments they'd be most invaluable. --Bouyeeze 00:46, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
--To me they sound like a combination of mathcore, metalcore, and post-hardcore. So I added mathcore and metalcore to the genres list. -Razorhead 29 March 2007
They are currently under post-hardcore and alternative metal. Those genres don't seem appropriate to me. Zanders5k 07:07, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
Are they really considered queercore? Where's the source for that?74.106.219.125 03:50, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
I've added "Debated Genres" as a description, because frankly, i've seen them described as: Progressive Metal, Progressive Metalcore, Hardcore Punk, Alternative Metal, Mathcore, Alternative Metal and whatnot... so let's settle on this until we agree on something. However, it should be noted that their two new songs "Bloodmeat" and "Sequoia Throne" show little to no influence of hardcore punk whatsoever.--PhoenixAscendant (talk) 06:24, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
A lot of their sound on Kezia is built entirely on odd/jumpy rhythms and complex/changing meter. Mathcore is definitely a valid description imo, especially if we are basing categorizations on consistency with the wiki articles. The mathcore article's first paragraph describes PTH perfectly. (71.172.90.17 (talk) 02:20, 14 December 2007 (UTC))
Just mathcore would work to define them. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.68.74.93 (talk) 05:00, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
I actually think that categorization should be based on facts about the music, and not in terms of consistency with the article, which could have unproven details. Let's take the music at face value. Odd / jumpy rhythms and complex / changing meter are also common to Progressive Metal, Technical Death Metal and Extreme Progressive Metal. IMO, "Mathcore" is a kind of "overcategorization-for-the-sake-of-individuality" category (like "Hollywood Metal", "Epic Metal", "Cheese Metal", "Pirate Metal", "Troll Metal" and so forth...) . Most of the time, something like "Progressive Metalcore" would work, as many of those "mathcore" bands show Hardcore, Progressive and Metal influences. But I have yet to find people who tend to think that "Prog Metalcore" could be a genre in itself, even though there could be a shitload of bands who could fall in this category.--PhoenixAscendant (talk) 19:02, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
- Progressive metalcore and mathcore are the same thing. Why the name "mathcore", I have no idea, but progressive metalcore seems to describe Protest the Hero pretty well. --...Wikiwøw. 19:09, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
Yet again, somebody changed it. I will change this back to what it was until told to keep it otherwise. To not saying that PTH is "Metal" in some way is like saying that Madonna never was "pop".PhoenixAscendant (talk) 12:20, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
Someone also mentioned alternative metal. The alternative metal article describes the genre as:
"characterized by some heavy metal trappings (most notably heavy riffs), but usually with a pronounced experimental edge, including unconventional lyrics, odd time signatures, unusual technique, a resistance to conventional approaches to heavy music and an incorporation of a wide range of influences outside of the metal music scene."
Maybe half of that qualifies PTH as alt metal, but "odd time signatures" and "unusual technique" is more characteristic of mathcore. Furthermore, the subgenres and bands mentioned in the article do not come close to Protest the Hero. In other words, I don't think alternative metal is accurate. However, I did realize the infobox lacks any mention of metal, which definitely describes them (at least their new sound in Fortress), so maybe prog metal would do it. I'm not sure, though, because it would be redundant (as they are already classified as "progressive metalcore", which in itself is metal-influenced). --...Wikiwøw. 03:09, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
I have to throw my hat in for mathcore. I quote the mathcore wiki entry "Many mathcore bands are rooted in the post-hardcore, screamo and post-rock scenes." Mathcore covers the Screamo, Hardcore, Post-hardcore, Metalcore stylings of the band. Mathcore(early) is not appropriate because they mathcore influence is still apparent in the music, and there are more hardcore related releases by this band. Due to the nature of the bands that they tour with, and given the general audience who consume PTH, Genre should be just Mathcore, followed by Progressive Metal, mainly due to their new album.
[edit] Trivia
I think some of the trivia would need to be referenced before we can freely state it, especially the moe throwing up bit and the frivolous encore bit. If it's not referenced (or at the very least, state in here how you know that) in the next few days I'm going to remove them. --Bouyeeze 15:02, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Vandilism to a stop?
Is it possible to request some sort of lock on this article due to vandilism please? --ShadowSlave 03:59, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
- You can try at Wikipedia:Requests for page protection, though I don't think there's been enough recent vandalism to semi-protect this page. I find with articles about bands, a lot of good edits are made by anonymous IP's. Though not always, as you pointed out. --Wikiwøw 21:27, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Excessive Praise
Hey, I like this band more than a lot of bands out there, but this article needs to be a whole lot more unbiased if anyone is going to take it seriously.36 Thoughtless 06:18, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Um...
"Trivia: In the scene where Tim is working as a counter boy, he enters the value '3.14159', which are the first 6 digits of the numerical value of pi. This connection is understandable since Protest have elements of Mathcore in their music." That last statement is ridiculous.
Under the line-up for the Tour and Loathing 2007, one of the bands is listed as "The Holy Springs Disaster", but in fact they are called "The Holly Springs Disaster". Just wanted to make sure the band (who are very good) get recognized.
[edit] Why was the Kezia article deleted?
I was shocked to find the Kezia article was deleted, and looking through the AfD archives, I found Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kezia. The consensus seems to have been Keep, so I must ask, why was it deleted? --...Wikiwøw 03:43, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
- It appears the admin who deleted it (User:Jimfbleak) has been using his power to delete articles at random, mostly those that are in development, and also with no explanation as to why the articles are deleted. How he determined the article to be non-notable and deletable is beyond me. Hackstar18 04:20, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
[edit] EP or single?
The Sequoia Throne article states that the song was released as a single, but this article says it was an EP. An EP and a single are different things, and maybe it'd be convenient to know which format "Sequoia Throne" was actually released as, since I'm skeptical of the EP idea. --...Wikiwøw. 00:14, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
- It was released through iTunes entitled "Sequoia Throne - EP" BinoChrist (talk) 19:25, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Headbanger's Blog
"February 5, 2008 lead vocalist for Protest the Hero, Rody Walker, posted a blog on MTV's Headbanger's Ball blogger site containing his infatuation with country music. Rody states 'I'm sick of all these idiots on the Internet who claim they listen to every type of music "except country." Those people are stupid liars. Obviously you don’t listen to everything if there’s an exception. On top of that silly mistake, country is awesome.'- Rody Walker"
I don't know if this necessary. Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information. We might as well include every opinion Walker has blogged about. Of course, that would be a bad idea, and trivia sections are discouraged. The only subjects that should be included on this article are those that are directly relevant to the band or their music. The quote might be welcome in an article about Rody Walker himself, but not here. Not to mention, it's uncited, which is the least of its problems. With that in mind, I will remove it. --...Wikiwøw. 02:27, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
