Talk:Prosopagnosia
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[edit] Renaming to 'Face blindness'
I notice the article has been renamed from prosopagnosia to face blindness. Although New Scientist may use the term, it is not a widely used and is inaccurate.
e.g. compare PubMed searches for face blindness (one hit) and prosopagnosia (353 hits).
Even Google has almost twice as many hits for prosopagnosia as face blindness.
Furthermore, people with prosopagnosia are not typically 'face blind' (i.e. they see faces, but they are either distorted or indistinct).
I propose renaming the article back to prosopagnosia, although please voice your objections below.
- Vaughan 09:59, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)
"Face blind", like "tone deaf" is a useful metaphor rather than a literal description. "Prosopagnosia" is a clumsy neoGreek construction: "concerning eyes not knowing". Bill at http://www.choisser.com/faceblind/ uses the term for himself: "I can see faces. I just can't tell them apart." If you don't want a Greek or Latin lexical construction, you could use Old English: "face mingler/mingling", but "face blind" is short and lucid. The condition of being able to see everything other than faces doesn't seem to exist, so there isn't opportunity for confusion. Bob Marsden 24.06.05—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 83.100.130.201 (talk • contribs) 06:46, 24 June 2005 (UTC).
- That may be true, but as I pointed out above, the term 'face blind' is rarely used in comparison to 'prosopagnosia', which seems a good justification for naming the article as it is. - Vaughan 07:18, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)
As someone with prosopagnosia, I have to say I *hate* the term "face blind". WMMartin 17:28, 14 September 2005 (UTC)
I agree that the term should be Prosopagnosia. It is a medical term that describes the condition. Prosopagnosia is a condition you have. Face blind is something you are. I am not face blind. More of us with Prosopagnosia are beginning to use the term, Prosopagnosia, as awareness becomes more common.WendSong 06:07, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
- Just make a redirect, jeeze. I looked up Face Blindness because it was called that on a news report, but had to google for the "proper" name. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by WtW-Suzaku (talk • contribs) 20:26, 18 June 2007.
[edit] Anecdotal Evidence about Prosopagnosia in Gay Men
I read recently that there was some evidence that gay men are proportionately more likely to have prosopagnosia than straight men, but I can't remember the source ( so it's not just faces I can't remember :-) ). Accordingly, I've put this point in the article as "anecdotal"... If anyone has the reference, I hope they'll add it. Thanks in advance. WMMartin 17:36, 14 September 2005 (UTC)
Perhaps that should read "Anecdotal Evidence about Homosexuality in Prosopagnosics". As a prosopagnosic who identified as bigendered/bisexual before discovering prosopagnosia, I see face blindness as a potential precursor to homosexuality rather than the other way around. So, the more interesting study for me would be to ask prosopagnosics about their sexual orientation and gender identity.Research at Harvard now indicates that prosopagnosia is less rare than thought, so a large enough sample to confirm or deny a link seems within reach.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by User 68.49.102.74 (talk • contribs) 01:36, 15 June 2006 (UTC).
- To contribute to this original research: I am gay and I also have it. A.Z. 01:15, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
- I would also like to contribute, but as your first volunteer for the control group. I am not gay and I do not have it. --70.59.146.117 (talk) 08:51, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Difficulty laying down memory of a face
I have difficulty laying down a memory of a face, which I now realise has been debilitating throughout life (I need to remember clothes, hair etc). I often cannot remember a face at all, minutes after one meeting with a person, and can take up to about six meetings. I once turned round and danced with the wrong woman! Strangely though, I am regarded as having an exceptionally good memory for faces once aquired (I can identify an actor correctly while others are arguing whether it really is). My brothers and son report similar difficulties. Not prosopagnosia exactly, but interesting, as I'm a high achiever and my memory for other things is fairly good, while my long-term memory is outstanding. Anyone else with soslopagnosia? --86.142.171.128 20:25, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
For me, i can recognize people, but when away from them i can't remember what there face looks like in person, only the memory pictures cani remember—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 64.230.75.186 (talk • contribs) 04:37, 28 July 2006 (UTC).
- 64.230.75.186, if you're saying what I think you're saying (I'm a little confused by "only the memory pictures cani remember") then that's pretty normal. --70.59.146.117 (talk) 09:49, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
Me too --86.135.68.212 15:46, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Penn Jillette
Disclosed his diagnosed prosopagnosia on his radio show 30 AUG 2006. Podcast is available on iTunes.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.183.116.193 (talk • contribs) 19:07, 30 August 2006 (UTC).
- This is apparently incorrect. Penn has since been asked about this again (in a TV Guide interview) and denied it. See Penn Jillette for more info, or follow the link to the interview. Dstumme 20:59, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
- But does it matter to this article wether Pen has P or not? He does give a good description of associative prosopagnosia in the link mentioned though ...
[edit] How to say it
Somebody get an IPA pronunciation of this word? =/ -- Denelson83 10:52, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Prosopagnosia in Popular Culture
There was an episode of Picket Fences which dealt with this issue. The little person in the cast was briefly in love with an older man with prosopagnosia (although I believe it was just called agnosia in the episode) but couldn't continue the relationship because he could never recognize her. --66.227.147.141 01:12, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] ICD
ICD code, please?? --Shandristhe azylean 07:55, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
- Prosopagnosia is not a diagnosis with officially agreed criteria (hence no ICD code). The research literature usually uses neuropsychological tests to determine whether someone has a selective deficit for face processing. - Vaughan 09:44, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Merge with prosopagnosis
I notice that someone added a tag suggesting that prosopagnosis and prosopagnosia be merged. I have three comments:
- Content: A quick look at the page prosopagnosis page shows that it is a mess. I am not sure that it contains any useful information that would warrant a "merge." I'd suggest that a redirect would be more in order.
- Neologism: Prosopagnosis is a neologism that, in my training, I have never heard. Based on my experience, the word would seem to refer to the process of face recognition, but deficits in face recognition.
- Notability: From a quick google search, prosopagnosis turns up only 183 hits, and for example, the first one correctly refers to prosopagnosia, and then uses this neologism to refer to deficits much more broadly. A pubmed search turns up no hits at all for prosopagnosis (consistent with my professional experience of never having heard the term) and 410 for prosopagnosia.
On the basis of these factors, I suggest that the prosopagnosis page be turned into a re-direct. I'm also copying this to the prosopagnosis talk page. Edhubbard 14:48, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Autism and Prosopagnosia
I have always had trouble remembering people by face; I use their hairstyle and clothing as cues when I first meet them, and if they change clothes, I may think they're a different person. (This has happened at three-day conventions and campouts.) If a customer returns later the same day, this can be embarrassing. However, a particularly interesting or emotive face is easy to remember.
I often rely on context, and who I know from where. A family friend was waiting behind me at the ATM one day, and if they hadn't said my name, I would not have remembered that I knew them.
I also have Asperger Syndrome, a high-functioning form of autism. One of the major effects of this syndrome is my innate inability to read body language and facial expression. I rely on the spoken words of the person I am speaking with, and while I can follow the logical flow of a conversation, the person I speak with may get frustrated when I don't pick up their nonverbal conversational cues. The automatic, innate translation of facial expression into emotion is something I've only experienced with animals, cartoon characters, and performing actors.
I believe Asperger Syndrome and mild prosopagnosia are closely related, in my case, to nontypical functioning of mirror neurons. Does anyone know, offhand, of research that may reflect this? --BlueNight 05:32, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
- Hi BlueNight, you're quite right as there is a much discussed link between the autism spectrum and prosopagnosia in the research literature. See this PubMed entry for a summary of a paper and link to the full text. - Vaughan 21:41, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Ventrical stream
Does this article have anything about the ventrical stream? (I got a little sidetracked from the article to here and forgot what I'd read.) Anyway, if it doesn't--shouldn't it? What do those who actually know a thing or two about the ventrical stream think about this? --70.59.146.117 (talk) 09:58, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
