Talk:Proprioception

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[edit] Where Balance?

Exteroceptive vs. proprioceptive: which is balance? The article seems to slightly contradict itself in first calling balance an exteroceptive sense, then saying that kinethesis differs from proprioception in that it lacks balance. --anonymous

I notice the same incongruity. Could anyone with more knowledge then me correct the article? --192.33.238.6 14:15, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Well, there's some incongruity in the definition of proprioception. Looking at a range of dictionary definitions (from here), we have from the reception of stimuli produced within the organism (Merriam-Webster's Medical Dictionary), which is ambiguous as far as balance goes, all the way to The unconscious perception of movement and spatial orientation arising from stimuli within the body itself. In humans, these stimuli are detected by nerves within the body itself, as well as by the semicircular canals of the inner ear. (The American Heritage Science Dictionary), which explicitly includes balance. The definition of kinesthesia clearly excludes balance, as it refers specifically to muscles and joints, such as The sense that detects bodily position, weight, or movement of the muscles, tendons, and joints. (American Heritage Dictionary).
As to whether balance is an external or internals stimulus, that's bordering on metaphysics...the source of the gravity you feel is external to your body, but the gravity itself passes through your body, and it's there, in the inner ear, that the gravity is felt. If that is an internal sense, then shouldn't sight, which perceives light that has passed through the lens of the eye into the body, also be an internal sense? Balance is sort of the bastard stepchild of the senses, being left out of the "big five", but it could be argued that loss of the sense of balance is as or more debilitating than deafness or blindness. scot 14:53, 23 August 2007 (UTC)




Removed the following unattributed anecdote:

"Someone reports having lost the proprioception in one of his little fingers. When he grabs something, that little finger may or may not be in the way. The finger is not paralysed, it moves when he wants it to, but he can determine how much it moved only by looking at it. Watching it all the time slows his work down too much, so he prefers to correct for it when he feels that little finger bump into an object he is grasping."

It didn't seem necessary, although it is an accurate portrayal of what someone could experience. --Nameless

Someone on Usenet mentioned this article and said that proprioception is the sense that your body parts 'belong' to you, and is the sensor for the feedback loop that gives you base muscle tone, but that kinesthesia is the sense of limb position, the sensors detecting the degree of joint flexion. Anyone know whether this is correct? If so, this article looks to be largely one about kinesthesia rather than proprioception. Bryan 08:26, 10 Feb 2004 (UTC)

From my limited experiences in the field kinesthesia and proprioception are used interchangeably. My curiousity was piqued, so I did a little googling on the difference betwen kinesthesia and proprioception. Most of the information I found uses the terms interchangeably. However, in a few locations I found attempts to distinguish them (not all compatible):

Kinesthesia is a sub-modality of the broader term of Proprioception. Proprioception encompasses 4 submodalities: joint position sense, kinesthesia, and speed/force of movement. Proprioception is the actual acquistion of information via proprioceptive receptors---the information acquired, then, is JPS, kinesthesia, and speed/force of movement. Jenna

  • kinesthesia is a localized sensation, proprioception is "body wide"
  • proprioception includes a sense of "orientation" (presumably from vestibular equilibrioception), whereas kinesthesia is just positional sense
  • kinesthesia is strictly from sensory data from nerve receptors in the muscles and joints, whereas proprioception includes "other" intra-body sensations.
  • kinesthesia is the sense of motion, proprioception is the sense of position
Perhaps there is some specialized knowledge which can help with this distinction. Or perhaps these terms are used loosely to refer to the same thing.
I have found that when these terms are used alone they are both used in two major senses. One as the raw input from sensory neurons, and the other to refer to a more qualial, experiential, or psychological sense of self. The funny thing is that when they are used in either sense, they are used synonymously. Perhaps there is some specialized knowledge which can help with this distinction, but the usage makes this seem dubious.
--mporch 07:30, 25 Mar 2004 (UTC)
Mporch is correct, more or less. Kinesthesia is one aspect of proprioception, just like hot/cold discrimination is one aspect of the sense of touch.
--Nameless


The NIH (http://crisp.cit.nih.gov/Thesaurus/00006656.htm) defines proprioception/kinesthesia as:

"proprioception is the sense of body position and movement, mediated by the labyrinth (equilibrium) and peripheral receptors in the muscles and elsewhere (limb and joint position); kinesthesia includes the latter, but not equilibrium"

I'm going to mention kinethesia in the first paragraph (since I've created a kinesthesia page that redirects here) and use the NIH definition to differentiate, and mention that the two terms are often used interchangeably. scot 16:30, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Proprioceptive Stimulation

I am a Podiatric Researcher and Biomechanical Engineer. My area of interest has been proprioceptive stimulation, its impact on posture and chronic musculoskeletal pain. For information on our research (including published articles), visit the following non-commercial website:

removed link, it contains no external ADs but in my opinion is a promotional website. --192.33.238.6 14:19, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Example of proprioception?

It is noted that a general lack of empathy and good feeling among a population of human strangers (ex a sidewalk of commuters, students, etc.) is expressed most often by 'eyes on the ground,' usually focused on the immediate path of the feet in question.

I wonder how connected proprioception is to theory of mind and that, what do you call it, theory that where someone is looking relative to their head is related to their thought process?

Perhaps being introverted and feeling alone would result in an increased focus on the repetitive and necessary functions of the self?

Or is it some kind of poetic metaphor that our eyes drop downward when we are sad?

[edit] Please add pronunciation

pro·pri·o·cep·tion

The current IPA has adjacent inverted "r" and upright "r" - this is wrong. One or the other, but not both. — 62.3.248.86 20:32, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Proprioception and inner ear

I am a hearing and balance specialist (neurotologist) and I take issue with a definition of proprioception which would imply the balance organs of the inner ear (the vestibule) have something to do with it. Strictly speaking, the vestibule is a mechanoreceptive sensory organ which detects angular and linear accelerations of the head. It has nothing to do with the sensation of location or movement of the limbs or trunk, although it participates in reflex arcs which may generate reflex movements of limbs or trunk to maintain balance.

I agree entierly. This article seems to confuse vestibular sense with proprioception and contradict itself as a result. It is in need of a major rewrite. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Selket (talk • contribs) 21:14, 21 January 2007 (UTC).
I'm with you, too - the inner ear senses rotation by the inertia of fluid in the semi-circular canals, if I remember my school lessons correctly. They will not be affected by the direction of gravitational force. The sense of 'which way is up' is probably deduced from forces on limbs due to their own weight, and distribution of pressure on supporting contact points eg feet on ground ! 195.137.93.171 06:23, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
I disagree. Linear acceleration is sensed by the otolith organs of the inner ear. --193.167.176.21 (talk) 12:14, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
Proprioception is (according to my textbooks) a sense of the position of the limbs and body in relation to itself. Although proprioception plays a major role in the ability to, for example, walk or stand upright, it has nothing to do with the inner ear. I at least was unable to find any direct link between the afferent nerves of muscle spindles and the vestibulospinal tract. Perhaps the article should be corrected and given proper citations?--193.167.176.21 (talk) 12:14, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Spinal injuries

This article doesn't mention it but proprioception is also something (not surprisingly) that is frequently affected by spinal cord injuries. For example, a person may have muscle movement and/or sensation but no proprioception of e.g. the legs (which makes walking rather difficult requiring training etc). Nil Einne 19:30, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

I'd never heard of that before--but now that you mention it, I've heard of the what may be the opposite effect, in the form of phantom limb sensations. Can you point me to a source? scot 19:56, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
I am reading a case study on a lady who lost her proprioception. In her own words she said she felt she had been "scooped out". She had to releard how to move using mostly sight, though she still retained pain, pressure, and temperature perception. She could "feel her arms" by the wind but not thier location. You may find the story in chapter 3 of Oliver Sacks' "The Man Who Mistook His Wife for a Hat and other clinical tales". Sorry I don't have an internet source.
Also the same story clearly distinguishes proprioception from balance perception, which it is noted may compensate in part for her lack of position perception. Falton 03:32, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Misleading article

I think this article is misleading and contains a number of factual inacuracies. There is rampant confusion of proprioception and vetibuloception (a completely seperate topic). I find the fact that the use by law enforcement section is longer than the basis section extreamly depressing.

Any objections to a major overhaul?

--Selket 10:30, 21 January 2007 (UTC)


I concur. Although after reading the article I did get a general idea what proprioception is, the article has a lack of focus, is winding, and was a generally unpleasant read. Anything you (or anyone) can do to make this more cohesive would really be of value.

-Matt

I've added a couple of things to the preamble, principally a bit on the historic development of the notion of proprioception which I think helps clear up some of the difficulty with proprioception versus kinaesthesia. Unfortuntely as many researchers ignore this difference, the terms are becoming increasingly - and I think incorrectly - interchangeable. Being new to Wikipedia, I'm not sure how heavily you want this referened - please be assured that each of my contributions have valid references which I have left out partly as it makes it harder to read, and largely because I'm not sure how to do this ;-) I think ther are a couple of chunks which could, and perhaps should be simply removed from this article as they are misleading, but again I'm not sure of the protocol regarding editing someone else's work. Whiteley.rod 04:37, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Could you describe your references here on the talk page? There are plenty of other people here who could help with the formatting, if you could describe what they were. --Arcadian 18:39, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

I just came to this article, looked through it -- and I don't think it is that bad, currently. Go ahead and fix whatever technical flaws it may still have, but I don't think there is a need to tag/label/categorize it as "misleading".-69.87.200.68 10:47, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Proprioception plus Depth Perception?

The brain takes proprioception, depth perception, and other resources and uses them all together to create a 3-D understanding of the world surroundings and the physical self located in and moving in the world. What is the proper term for the whole functioning brain 3-D model/ability?-69.87.200.68 11:16, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

Depth perception relies on external cues; proprioception is related to just internal senses. Proprioception plus external sensory data are both required for tasks such as walking; you have to know where your body is and how it's balanced, plus know how far away the ground is (does it slope up or down?) and where obstacles are that need to be avoided. 14:55, 12 September 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fluzwup (talk • contribs)
See also body image aka body schema. Avb 19:28, 27 December 2007 (UTC)