Talk:Propagandhi

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[edit] Anti-Everything?

Isn't there a way to generalize the opening sentence so that a reader doesn't run into a whole bunch of "anti-<insert something here>" attacks upon starting to read the article?

They seem to be in line with anarchist philosophy but they have claimed that they don't like being labeled as anarchists.
-- Anarchists don't like *isms or ideologies, hence why they would deny having any guiding "philosophy".
-------And you don't see the irony in your generalized statement about anarchists?


I don't think they can really be called "anti-capitalist". They're definitely anti-corporatist, but songs like "Rock for Sustainable Capitalism" on their new album seem to indicate they support some form of capitalism. --Delirium 03:00, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

...Someone missed the point of that song.

...yes, someone definitly missed the point of that song. they are clearly anti-capitalist. READ THE LYRICS!!!!

I suppose that's possible; I just glanced at the title, not the lyrics. I haven't bothered to listen to any Propagandhi since the utter shite "Today's Empires...", although their old stuff is still great. --Delirium 00:51, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

Then yay for uninformed and biased statements!

Just thought I'd note that this very Wikipedia article was mentioned in an interview with Chris / Glen. http://www.propagandhi.com/interviews/uptown.php Dylan 18:16, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Bill Stevenson is the Producer?

I was wondering if Bill Stevenson really is the producer of Potemkin City Limits. If that's the case, why does not this article mention anything about it and I was also wondering if those albums prior to Potemkin have Stevenson as producer as well? In case this is all nonsense, please remove him from Potemkin City Limits. Thanks. RememberMe.

--Bill Stevenson, of Descendents/Black Flag fame, is NOT the producer of Potemkin City Limits. However, he did MIX and MASTER the album along with Jason Livermore. I don't think he was involved in any other albums by Propagandhi. I don't think there is a strong need to mention his name in the article. On a side note, Stevenson compared Potemkin City Limits to a Voivod album, a band that Propagandhi like a lot.

[edit] Relations with Fat Mike?

Is there anything beyond the diss on PCL to back up the fact that Propagandhi have "fallen out" with Fat Mike? It might be just me but it seems like the punk community is making more of a deal of this than Propagandhi and Fat Mike themselves. Anything concrete that I missed or can that be deleted?

I doubt it. Seeing as the album was on Fat Wreck, it'd be surprising if they had some falling-out and had to sneak that swing into "Rock for Sustainable Capitalism." I'd go ahead and delete, or at least explain the situation. Dylan 01:12, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
Some people think it's important, I guess, because it keeps getting added back in. I just removed this bit only because it seems like a poor explanation: "The album's name appeared in the lyrics to the 2006 NOFX release "Wolves In Wolves' Clothing" on the song "The Marxist Brothers" - 'Still I'm waiting to see if my bid on eBay was enough/To get Today's Empires Are Tomorrow's Ashes on soviet red vinyl/It's going on the wall/Next to Tubthumper and The Battle Of Los Angeles'."
I thought it was an interesting bit of trivia, by you're correct, it needs to be cited before it can really be included, as well as a better explanation of the so called dispute. Personally it looks more to me like they're taking the mickey rather than an actual falling out. hellboy 00:53, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Glen Lambert vs. Chris Hannah

Uhh, I'm pretty sure the comment on the G7 site saying Chris Hannah had left the band was a bit of a joke. It is obviously him singing in both of the released tracks ("Name and Address Withheld" and "Die Jugend Marschiert"). Also, it says he left in 2003. I have seen videos of Propagandhi in 2004, and Hannah plays with them. I'm not sure if your editing the article was a joke too, seeing as a Google for "Portage Terriers" only returns a hockey team, not a band, and a Google for Glen Lambert and Portage Terriers returns only one usable result, and that's the G7 website itself. I'm reverting the edit. -- Q

Sorry -- I was basing it on what the G7 website said. Sorry to have changed it if it was wrong, but it seemed authentic enough. It occured to me that it may have been a joke, but they fooled me. My bad.
I think the wording regarding Glen Lambert and the Portage Terriers should be changed, as is makes it sound as if something can't exist if Google hasn't indexed it. Whether Lambert's involvement is a joke or not, that sentence screams of unprofessionalism. Deisbrenner 08:18, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
I'm not sure what you're hinting at, does the text in Wikipedia sound unprofessional, or are Propagandhi unprofessionaly for spreading such disinformation? If you feel the text is unprofessional, then feel free to change it around. Personally I think it sounds ok, but then again I'm biased since I wrote it! hellboy 02:44, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
Someone else has already changed the text, but to clarify my concern, the way it was originally worded made it sound as though something must be able to be found online in order to be true. Deisbrenner 02:05, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Formed in 92?

From their site: "So then we got a call from a young lad named Stinky Mike Braumeister who wanted to play bass. Mike tended to wear a leather jacket with no shirt on underneath in the summer, hence his nick-name. We played our very first shows with Mike, including one with Fugazi in 1991 that was definitely one of the bigger hi-lites of our "career" to date"

First bassist was Hopper too, not JKS

Could someone feeling wordy (yes, wordy!) fix it cos i'm not

[edit] Pictures of recordings?

Are these picture of each and every Propagandhi release really neccesary on this page? Surely anyone wanting info and/or pics of this will go to the album page? hellboy 04:37, 8 March 2006 (UTC) Ok since no one has any objections I'll take the off! hellboy 01:12, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Editing Propagandhi

I don't have the energy to read the discussion on this page. But i've got to say, a bit of the article seems like someone wrote/edited it 1) either in a rush, or 2) after having dropped out of elementary school. Come on, this is Wikipedia. Make the punk band write ups reflective of the bands.. meaning literate. I had to edit a bunch of little things, grammer, etc... As in, parts of it didn't make any sense whatsoever. Maybe someone could put a post on the site's message board for some extreme fans to put in more info, etc. on the article. But good job otherwise.

[edit] Discography

I just made a rather large update/reorganization to the Discography section. If anybody feels the need to put the tables back, please do so. This is also my first addition to Wikipedia. If I did something wrong, please let me know. Wyatt Riot 08:40, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

I made a few more minor edits and added a new page for "Where Quality is Job #1". Wyatt Riot 09:25, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

I reverted changes made by 24.20.57.217. Where Quality is Job #1 is a double 7" released by Recess Records in 1994 and Where Quantity is Job #1 is a CD released by G7 Welcoming Committee Records in 1998.Wyatt Riot 23:20, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

I added this to the discography:

It was deleted and maybe I put it in the wrong place, but is it not noteworthy to include this somewhere as part of the band's activism? And maybe mention that they played a free show for protesters at the FTAA summit in Quebec? The article mentions the band's political ideals, but doesn't describe the band's political activism beyond their song lyrics, which seems odd for such an activist band that supports a number of social justice organizations. Strobilus 22:12, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

I deleted that song from the discography because, as of right now, the compilation section only contains alternate takes/versions and songs which don't appear on any other album. This isn't to say that a list of all their compilation appearances isn't appropriate for that section, just that including every appearance of Propagandhi on a compilation will probably more than triple the discography section itself, watering it down in my opinion. The way I see it, what's the point of listing every single compilation that "Anti-Manifesto" has appeared on, especially when it's the exact same version found on How to Clean Everything? (Again, my opinion. This from a person who bought every compilation with a new Propagandhi song on it, only to have 90% of those purchases become obsolete once Where Quantity... came out. That was frustrating, to say the least.) But if people want to catalog their compilation appearances, I'm willing to help. Like I said, I own tons of them....  :)
As for including details about their activism beyond the lyrics, I think that's a great idea. Maybe a general note about contributing songs to benefit compilations and then list a few specifics (including GASCD)? Other ideas beyond that? Where should it go? Wyatt Riot 07:18, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
I agree that every a list of every compilation would add little to the discography. Maybe the band's activism should get its own section? Strobilus 14:30, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
I agree wholeheartedly about a new activism section. Ideas for content? (Maybe a new topic section on the talk page, too?) Wyatt Riot 00:37, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Added a discography template. First template I've added. I'm not much of a wikipedian, so I may well have screwed up. Feel free to fix it if needed. Alrin 03:00, 6 April 2008

[edit] Punkervision

Anybody have more info on the Punkervision comp in the Disco section? It seems more like an advertisement than anything, a bootleg that somebody threw onto DVD.Wyatt Riot 13:10, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

It bordered on non-notability and vanity enough to warrant removal, I think, so I removed it.Wyatt Riot 11:38, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] +The Beaver, -Glen Lambert

According to the G7 site, Glen Lambert is leaving and they've adding a new guitarist, nick-named "The Beaver". I already reverted the add of "The Beaver" to the page, thinking it was vandalism (because there was no context or edit summary), but that was before I read the news entry. I'm still unsure how much of this "Beaver" thing we should add. Knowing Propagandhi's history, there's a good chance that this is one huge joke. Ideas? Wyatt Riot 02:18, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Never mind, found more info on the G7 Giant Sons page (especially here) and added it into the entry. Wyatt Riot 02:35, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Name

I removed the passage "There name comes from a portmanteau of propaganda and Gandhi." I can't speak for the other editor who also removed it, but the problem I see is that it implies there there is some meaning behind their name. I believe that they chose the name simply because it sounds cool, but I certainly can't back that up with any evidence. All I know is that I've read many interviews with the band and I can't recall them ever commenting on their name or why they chose it.

If an editor can find such a reference, please put the passage back. Until then, I'm removing it per WP:V.

Your right. There names dos'nt really fit the definition of a true portmanteau, which would mean there is a combined meaning to them. I found there name dureing a search and thought it was an accuarate desription of were I was trying to go. I put it back but have removed portmanteau.
  • (It seems to me, though, that in this case it comes not from a combination of meaning, but simply an expression of ironey, simular to Jello Biafra. Im not sure what you'de call that, exactly)* 69.250.130.215 22:24, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
I reverted this edit again. Please, if you're going to add it back, make sure that it's properly cited and from a reliable source, or an editor is just going to remove it again. Also, please find some non-POV phrasing because it really is contentious the way you've been putting it; we can help you out on this if you want. Wyatt Riot 00:31, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
WTF are you talking about??? How the hell is "There band name is a combination of propoganda and gandhi" Point Of View??!?!!? Its obviouse thats what it is. You'de have to be stupid not to see that! Im sick of going thru the trouble of explaining my side just to have it COMPLETELY ignored. Did you even bother to READ what I wrote? NO. This dos'nt have ANYTHING to do with a meaning behind the the name, it just plain damn linguistics. I don't need to cite sources to say Martin Luther King gets his name from Martin Luther. Its called Logic.
I don't doubt that it's a combination of "propaganda" and "Gandhi", but the way it's phrased implies that the band intended it to mean something, whether as a political statement or simple irony. In fact, I don't think there's a way to state it without implying anything, which (to me) means we should keep it out unless the band has specifically addressed the issue. Wyatt Riot 06:10, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Band picture

How about adding a decent picture of the band? Maybe something like this? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Duap (talk • contribs) 20:30, 4 February 2007 (UTC).

At one point there was a picture from G7, but I think it was removed due to fair use concerns. Not sure if your suggestion would get taken down as well, as beautiful as it is!  :) Maybe someone has a picture they've taken themselves? Wyatt Riot 14:58, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
I added a couple of photos. Strobilus 17:28, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Activism section?

There are mentions of the band's activism throughout the article, but not a lot of details. Some notes that are currently in other sections could be moved to concentrate activism info in one place. Things like contributions to benefit albums and concerts could be listed, and a couple of well chosen quotes from song lyrics might be appropriate. Any thoughts? Strobilus 20:48, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Hardcore!

Propagandhi plays a kind of Polit-Hardcore Punk and melodic Hardcore. Thats no Trash Metal or anything like that! The song strukture, their attitude etc. show that there have nothing in common with the metal szene. There are just musical style elements which shows the big relation to Punk or mostly to Hardcore Punk.

This should be changed!

88.72.18.122 12:24, 1 April 2007 (UTC) [German Wikipedia]

Propagandhi often self-identify as progressive trash, such as in this interview. Strobilus 03:37, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
The don't seem to identify as progressive thrash in that inteview. They talk about their music being "thrashy" but that is a far cry from labelling it within the genre of progressive thrash. There are some thrash elements to their music, but there is also a lot of pop-punk influence as well. Ungovernable ForcePoll: Which religious text should I read? 06:00, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
C'mon guys, be realistic, how does Propagandhi could be a Thrash Metal band?? I really don't get it. They're a punk rock/hardcore punk band, that's all. Actually I don't think they're a punk pop band either. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 201.204.47.118 (talk) 01:18, August 24, 2007 (UTC)
Here's a link to the band's website where they identify as thrash. That said, a band doesn't necessarily get to choose which genre they are identified as. I think the genre section in the infobox ought to include both progressive thrash and hardcore punk. I don't think pop-punk and progressive metal are very appropriate. Strobilus 17:28, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Genre

To all involved: this is the proper place to discuss genre in the infobox, rather than reverting endlessly. Wyatt Riot 21:08, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

I haven't made any changes myself, but personally I don't think that Propagandhi are progressive in any way, let alone progressive metal. hellboy 00:31, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
The infobox guideline says to aim for generality, so disputes like this might be avoided. How about including just punk and metal? All of the controversial edits to the genre box have been about sub-genres of these two. Strobilus 18:47, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

True, but there is such a thing as being to general, Personally I think we should work to maintain the current page until we can reach a better arangement Scipo 22:29, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

But is there any kind of consensus about what the current page is? While we're talking about it, not all genres should be capitalized in the infobox, only the first one listed. I think commas ought to be used to separate them, rather than <br />, as using <br /> leads people to capitalize inappropriately and makes the infobox longer than it needs to be. Strobilus 00:39, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

I don't beliveve thier is any general rule on which to use. Personally I like
just beacause I find it looks more professional Scipo 16:27, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

There is currently no guideline regarding the use of commas versus line breaks (<br />), though it is currently being discussed at Template talk:Infobox musical artist#Standardizing genre delimiters. I prefer commas, but I'm not too concerned either way. There are, however, guidelines about the capitalization of genres (they should not be capitalized -- see Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style_(capital_letters)#Musical_genres) and the use of the en-dash in the years active field (should not be spaced -- see Template:Infobox_Musical_artist#Years_active). Strobilus 20:19, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] WikiProject class rating

This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 14:13, 9 November 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Stolen Riff

Does anyone know where the Stolen Riff in Anti Manifesto is stolen from??? It's always really annoyed me! I would be enormously grateful to find out! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.110.181.124 (talk) 01:32, 8 January 2008 (UTC)


If you don't know where it is from...how do you know it is stolen?? RiseAgainst01 (talk) 22:28, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

By the lyrics "by the way, I stole this riff". Wyatt Riot (talk) 23:14, 13 February 2008 (UTC)