Talk:Professional wrestling throws

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	Professional wrestling Portal Professional wrestling throws is within the scope of WikiProject Professional wrestling, an attempt to improve and standardize articles related to professional wrestling. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, visit the project to-do page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and contribute to discussions.
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Contents 1 Archived discussions 2 Questions 3 Necessary Changes 4 Page length 5 Drivers 6 Tiger Driver 7 Manhattan drop 8 List of professional wrestling throws 9 Page length part 2 10 Move the page? 11 Pumphandle Michinoku driver II 12 Requested move 12.1 Survey 12.2 Discussion 13 Spinebuster 14 Rolling Fireman 15 Grammar concern 16 Leg Drag 17 Something that bugs me. 18 HBK FU? 19 Alternate regular name for the Death Valley Driver

[edit] Archived discussions

• /Archive 1 (June 6, 2005)

[edit] Questions

• Q: Isn't an Ace Crusher a Stone Cold Stunner? I seem to remember hearing a story that DDP was training with Ace and Regal, and he combined the Ace Crusher and Regal Cutter to create the Diamond Cutter. Plus, I was pretty sure an Ace Crusher was the same thing as a Stunner. I've always associated "crusher" with a sit down position and "cutter" with a laying down position.
• A: The difference between Ace Crusher and Diamond Cutter is that in Ace Crusher the wrestler wraps one of his arms around the opponent's head and jumps up so that he's horizontal, and puts his free hand on the opponent's head while falling down, pulling the opponent down to the mat. With Diamond Cutter the wrestler wraps both of his hands around the head of the opponent and takes a few steps forward, causing both men to drop to the mat. The terms however have become quite interchangeable, so they are considered the same move.

• Q: Didn't Randy Orton also get his RKO from the diamond Cutter?
• A: Huh? The move was taught to him by John Laurinitis, AKA Johnny Ace who called it the Ace Crusher.

• Q: Anyone know any pro-wrestlers in training? It would be really cool if we could get some copyright-free video of some of the moves linked.
• A: I know a guy who was in training as a wrestler, but he never completed it. Video might be good, but I think some clean-looking diagrams would be more immediately useful. — Gwalla | Talk 06:10, 22 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Necessary Changes

Here are some changes that I find completely necessary to the pro wrestling throws' page:

1. Why is armbar takedown listed here? That's just a method used to put somebody in an armbar. There is NO reason why it should be here.

suggstion: remove armbar takedown

2. So there are two versions of the Last Ride? I never knew that! Maybe somebody is spamming!

suggestion: remove "extended powerbomb"

3. Somebody needs to confirm if there is such thing as a "rolling fallaway slam".

Why don't you edit them? This is a wiki, after all. — Gwalla | Talk 00:57, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

You're right! I should! But, some person might add those FAKE moves back but...what the hell! IF ANYBODY ADDS ANY OF THE FAKE MOVES ABOVE BACK TO THE ARTICLE THEN GIVE ME A REASON WHY OR ELSE I WILL KEEP DELETING THEM! — Scorpion | Talk

Armbar takedown is not a fake move, nor is it just a way to place someone in an armbar, it is a trown to the ground by pulling on the arm... (Nunzios finisher is a springboard armbar takedown) (Christian performed an armbar take down to Chris Benoit from the top of a ladder at Wrestlemania 21) (the next night Edge used an armbar takedown to weaken Benoit's arm) hmmm funny thats a lot of use for a fake move.

Extended powerbomb isnt note worthy, it was a botched last ride by kane during the time of the Brothers of Destruction though others believe that to be the move given as a finisher to kane in the WWE Smackdown Games for the Playstation

Rolling Fallaway Slam nuthing more than a float over into another fallaway slam, much like what is noted at the end of northen lights suplex. Also did you know a fall awayslam can be bridged into a pin.

Anyway to sum up Keep Armbar Takedown, Remove Extended Powerbomb, Merge Rolling Fallaway Slam with Fallaway Slam ---- Paulley 13:52, 12 May 2005 (UTC)

The Rolling Fallway Slam was regularly used by William Regal in 2000-1.

http://www.deathvalleydriver.com/bbbowm/part1.htm - Slam, Forward Rolling Fallaway. And Chris Jericho included it on his list of 1002 moves. It isn't a "fake" move.

Scorpion, the onus is on you to justify changes, otherwise this would be a very short list. Please don't delete large amounts of content in a gung ho fashion without discussing it first. McPhail 15:54, 12 May 2005 (UTC)

Yea i remebered that as i was editing, so i merged Rolling Fallaway Slam with "Fireman's Carry Slam" that is what move is a variation of (it seems Samoan drops are also refered to as fallaway slams). sorry i didnt inform you of that before you placed rolling fallaway slam back in --- Paulley 18:14, 12 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Page length

This article is so long that some browsers will have trouble with it. It will be difficult to break up, because all the sub-topics are relatively similar, but knowledgeable editors might consider ways to divide it into several smaller articles that could be referenced from here, allowing this article to be shortened. - DavidWBrooks 18:18, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I REALLY suggest that this article be split into two different pages:

• Professional wrestling throws with names A-M and
• Professional wrestling throws with names N-Z

Hopefully somebody will do it soon. - Scorpion

Dividing it alphabetically doesn't seem like a useful way of organizing it. Take the Michinoku driver: it's a piledriver variant. Should it be put in A-M, or in N-Z under the piledrivers subsection? Either way would make it harder to find.

A more sensible way of splitting the article, it seems to me, would be to split out the larger sections into articles of their own, and have this one explain the basic types of throws and slams and link to the lists of variants. — Gwalla | Talk 03:14, 23 May 2005 (UTC)

I do think we will have to make a Piledriver page, and Powerbomb page, Suplex is already in use, so i suggest Suplex (professional wrestling). But all of you realise the impact this will have dont you, we will have to go through every article this page links too and correct the links.

also like to add Michinoku Driver isnt a piledriver... along with samoan driver, half nelson driver (Jonny Storms wonderwhirl') they are themselfs a whole seperate section. --- Paulley 19:34, 23 May 2005 (UTC)

That's true, my bad. My point still holds though. Oh, and suplex is already in use, but that's because it's apparently about the wrestling move, so it can be used as part of the split. — Gwalla | Talk 22:56, 24 May 2005 (UTC)

Ok, well like John Cena said "some ppl tlk about it, others BE about it"... take note this is the last day this page will not be split, tomorrow i will personally begin the process of dividing this page into pages for each section --- Paulley 09:33, 25 May 2005 (UTC)

I just moved the suplexes to suplex. That article still needs some cleanup but it's a start. I doubt we need to move all sections out—giving the atomic drop its own article would be overkill—just the big categories like piledrivers and powerbombs. — Gwalla | Talk 16:33, 25 May 2005 (UTC)

Piledriver and Powerbomb done.... ok i think thats enough for now, please let start fixing links--- Paulley 18:49, 25 May 2005 (UTC)

We could probably break out bodyslams into a separate article. The only problem with that is that they are the most "throw-like" of the moves in this article ostensibly on throws. That's less of a problem if we move this article to a more suitable title.

We could also break out DDT (professional wrestling) and Bulldog (professional wrestling). The advantage of having separate articles on basic move types is that linked moves (in wrestler bios, for instance) become less dependent on the section structure of these articles: if a link is made to a suplex with a mistyped or nonexistent section title, at least it links to information on suplexes rather than on throws and slams in general. — Gwalla | Talk 06:07, 31 May 2005 (UTC)

So you mean we make this article "Professional wrestling moves" and have every type of move link from it... including attacks, double team, holds, highflying etc. -- Paulley 16:25, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)

No, I think this article should stick around but be a lot shorter. Maybe rename it list of professional wrestling throws and slams or something like that (titles are supposed to be in the singular, something I didn't fully realize when I was starting out). — Gwalla | Talk 23:14, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Yeah, your right i never noticed that before. We may have to consider moving the the articles about professional wrestling moves, because non of the origional ones are in singular, only the move specific ones.

Also i do agree that we should move the DDT's into their own section -- Paulley 17:47, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)

What about the different kind of breaker i.e. Armbreaker, Neckbreaker, Backbreaker, Shoulderbreaker, Facebreaker, etc. and the different kinds of buster i.e. Facebuster, Brainbuster etc.... i was gonna say maybe they should have there own page as in a Buuster page and a Breaker page, but now i read it that seems a little silly... looking at it the only ones that could really get awy with their own page would be Neckbreaker, Backbreaker, Brainbuster, Facebuster (because even ppl that dont know much about wrestling have heard of terms like "brainbuster") --- Paulley

Brainbuster, neckbreaker, facebuster, and backbreaker should probably get their own articles. They each have a lot of variants. Neckbreaker in particular needs a bit of a refactor (people have been using weird header nesting. Also, we should get rid of the neologisms "neckbreaker slam" and "neckbreaker drop" (my fault) in favor of something more descriptive. The backbreaker and Argentine backbreaker holds should probably be broken out of the holds article and merged into backbreaker. We probably also need to break out powerslam and bodyslam. — Gwalla | Talk 06:36, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)

neckbreaker, DDT (professional wrestling) and backbreaker done. --- Paulley 4 July 2005 21:28 (UTC)

[edit] Drivers

This section seems redundant.

A Driver is a variation of many moves that involves an opponent being driven down to the mat on the back of their neck/sholder area. most commonly down between the legs of an attacker (who is dropping to a seated position).

The "most common variant", of course, describes the piledriver. All of the other drivers listed are variants of other moves (brainbusters, powerbombs, etc.), so the whole section is duplicating information that should be elsewhere.

If we really need a section for "moves with Driver in the name", then we should reword that paragraph and replace the subsections with a list that links each move name to the description in its appropriate article and section. Otherwise this section should be removed. — Gwalla | Talk 16:36, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)

well first off piledriver and brainbuster are not a varition of that what-so-ever, its neck and shoulder area, not top of head. and as for it being just a variation of a move... well it is, just like everything elso, there is a half nelson suplex, slam, driver (the "wonderwhirl"), facebuster.

omittedly you are right i did make the section a little redundent when i added the Death Valley Driver and changed the section's headline text if you would like to revert that section back to before then i wont object --- Paulley 17:01, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)

i reverted the headline text and removed DVD, hope that sorts it out --- Paulley 17:24, 6 Jun. 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Tiger Driver

re http://www.deathvalleydriver.com/bbbowm/part1.htm

That site lists it under the name Double Underhook Powerbomb, and is not clear on the separation between the sitout and regular variant.

The term Tiger Driver comes from Mitsuharu Misawa who as far as I know has only used the name for the sitout variant. (The Tiger Driver '91 and the top rope Tiger Driver have separate names.) If you have an example on the use of the name for a sitoutless variant I'd be happy to hear it, whether it be related to Misawa or anything else in the pro wrestling world.

-- Lakes 23:15, 7 Jun 2005 (UTC)

• I can't find a citation to that effect. It is important to distinguish between the moves, though, so if you're certain that a "Tiger Driver" is sitout, then I'll create a separate entry for "double underhook powerbomb", i.e. non-sitout version. McPhail 11:25, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Yes this is good by me. Lakes 13:16, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Manhattan drop

Reverted this contribution from an anon. If it does exist, it's not common enough to not need citations. — Gwalla | Talk 04:52, 24 July 2005 (UTC)

Its an inverted Atomic drop, which is already on this page... the name Anon called it by is taken from the smackDown! Games, but im not sure if it has been called that by someone down the line somewhere --- Paulley 11:10, 25 July 2005 (UTC)

I belive the term Manhattan Drop comes from Japan, as I have seen it in numerous Japanese Wrestling Video Games before seeing it used in Smackdown. I'm not positive at all, but I think Masahiro Chono calls it such.--Talison 07:37, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

The name "Manhattan Drop" came from Adrian Adonis's use of it in Japan. As he popularized the spot, and was billed from Manhattan, the name was born. --RevAladdinSane, 10 January 2006

[edit] List of professional wrestling throws

I'm recommending the rename of this article to "List of professional wrestling throws". As per Wikipedia:Lists (stand-alone lists), list articles such as this are much easily recognisable when it begins with "List of...". Great job, BTW, guys. I laud your work creating separate articles for throws that have "outgrown" this list. Thanks! -- Perfecto  21:36, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

Unless there are objections, I'll move it tomorrow. -- Perfecto 22:26, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

Move done on 00:20, 5 December 2005. Thank you everyone. -- Perfecto 00:22, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Page length part 2

The article is still more than twice the recommended article length, so we're going to have to create more individual articles. Creating Facebuster and Powerslam would greatly reduce the page length. McPhail 18:25, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

Agreed... the same can be said for some of the other move list but this one is in the most need right now ---- Paulley 15:12, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Move the page?

Sorry if this has been suggested before, but I noticed that many of the other lists of moves have the title "Professional wrestling (move category)." Shouldn't this page then also be "Professional wrestling throws" instead of "List of ..."? Poofyspikes 05:51, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

It was origionally, in fact it was the first wrestling move page on wiki, subsequently it's the only one i did not create. so it is infact my fault that all the other move pages dont go by the correct naming convention. But to answer your question see the discussion to sections above --- Paulley 20:25, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Pumphandle Michinoku driver II

Could this move also be called a (As seen in the WWE Smackdown! game series)? Or is it a pumphandle piledriver?--Themasterofdisguise 19:55, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

depends on how much they drop the person on their heads... the Magnum Driver is a sit-out pumphandle slam, while the pumphandle piledriver ends like a reverse (belly-to-belly) piledriver. i think its an inbetween driver version where they are dumped on their upper shoulders and neck area. --- Paulley 10:28, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Requested move

I think it should be stated that Bubba Ray Duddley uses the sitout full nelson slam as finsher

[edit] Spinebuster

Could somebody upload the pic with Rhino doing the Spinebuster to abyss again? Its much better than the Batista one.

done --- Paulley

[edit] Rolling Fireman

Didn't Dave Finlay create the Rolling Firemans Carry? If so can we mention it under the entry? Bdve

I thought so as it is also referred to often as the Finlay Roll, his name for it, but I couldn't confirm it. I reverted it becoming a subsection as then all links to it get broken but if you wish to make it its own section and change the links on the pages to point to it correctly I have no problem. --- Lid 02:21, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

I'm fine with it not being a subsection, but when I noticed it I just thought about him and his creating it. I think I need to go looking it up. If he created it he deserved the credit.-Bdve

[edit] Grammar concern

Many of the descriptions of the moves use plural pronouns (they, them) when the language calls for singular (he, she, him, her). This really should be changed. Croctotheface 09:26, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

The reason for the ambiguity is to get rid of gender relations, as the gender of the performer is irrelevent, and the old type of he/she caused a lot more grammar concerns. –– Lid^(Talk) 11:50, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Wikipedia acknowledges "they" and "them" as singular pronouns. If the style guide doesn't mind this kind of usage, then I certainly don't either. However, if as I suspect Wikipedia does not consider this usage correct, then it really should be changed, either to "he" or "he or she". Although I'll admit that I don't intend to undertake this project myself, it seems to me that there should be some way to write descriptions of moves such that "he or she" could be used correctly. Croctotheface 08:45, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

The gender neutral use of "them" and "they" makes gibberish out of many of the entries, e.g. Samoan driver: "The attacking wrestler drapes an opponent over their shoulders in a fireman's carry position and then takes hold of the opponent and pulls them over their shoulder and down to the mat while falling to a sitting position so that the opponent lands on their upper back and neck between the legs of the wrestler, facing towards them." Who hit who in the what?!? Austinmayor (talk) 01:36, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Leg Drag

I need to know what this move I'm describing is called. A guy catches another guys leg. Both are facing face to face. The guy then whips the other guy's leg and his entire body to the floor. Is that a leg drag?

Sounds like a dragon screw leg whip.«»bd(^talk _stalk) 20:40, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Something that bugs me.

A hurracanrana isn't a "headscissors takedown," it's a reverse victory roll. This is a headscissors: [1]. A headscissors takedown would be a flying variation of that hold. A hurracanrana is an entirely different thing. VelvetKevorkian 04:32, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] HBK FU?

At the part about Cenas FU, it says HBK uses the same move, also calling it the FU. Should this be taken out? EDIT: It was changed, so its ok now. MCU 20:34, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Alternate regular name for the Death Valley Driver

Could the Death Valley Driver be also named as a Fireman's carry side brainbuster? Because the way it performs does ends as a brainbuster on the side. Any opinions? jlog3000 (talk) 17:06, 20 January 2008 (UTC)