Talk:Professional sport in Toronto

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[edit] Most famous in the world?

In the article it is stated that the Maple Leafs are probably Toronto's most famous team globally. Writers should be very wary of making such statements in wikipedia as it is impossible to back up unless there is only one major team in the city of course. This is especially true in the USA and Canada where the framework of sports is very different to the rest of the world. Being in work when reading the article I decided to conduct a quick straw poll of colleagues who would claim to be sports fans. Eight people, living in London and coming from different parts of the world {not North America} were asked to name a Toronto sports team. Four said Toronto FC {not surprising as Major League Soccer is televised all over Europe, Africa, Asia and South America}, two said the Toronto Blue Jays, though neither knew in which sport the team play, one said the Toronto Canadians, shrugging, raising his eyebrows and holding palms up to confirm that this was a stab in the dark, and the last person simply said they did not know but imagined it would be a hockey team. I've not changed the article or deleted the statement but would be willing to bet that Toronto's most famous team, in London at least is very definately Toronto FC. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Captainbeecher (talk • contribs) 16:37, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Hamilton NHL franchise

I was just curious about the inclusion of Balsillie's drive to relocate the Predators to Hamilton in this article. This is supposed to be about sport in Toronto, not Hamilton, or the GTA, or the Golden Horseshoe etc. Is there any reason why this should be retained? (If need be, someone could create an article for Professional sport in Ontario, Hockey in Ontario, or something similar, for which such information would hold more relevance. Mindmatrix 14:40, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Please look at the article Second NHL team in Toronto for the reason why the Hamilton NHL franchise is mentioned in this article. Johnny Au 16:43, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
That article seems to contain a lot of original research, and it doesn't address my original question - why is an NHL franchise in Hamilton being mentioned (in such depth) in an article about sport in Toronto? If the answer is contained in that article, please tell me where. Better yet, excerpt the relevant text into this discussion. Mindmatrix 18:33, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
That would belong in Professional sport in Southern Ontario, as it talks about Toronto/Hamilton/Kitchener-Waterloo, but there's no need for such an article. Since there is already a main article on this subject, the details should be condensed here and merged (already looks like it was copy and pasted) to Second NHL team in Toronto with a possible rename. –Pomte 20:23, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Toronto Toros (WHA), Toronto Roadrunners & Toronto Marlies (AHL)

As somewhat of a supplementary to the above discussion, it's ironic that a discussion on a "potential" team in the Toronto area is taking up three paragraphs of the hockey section ... but there is absolutely no mention of the Toronto Toros tenure during the 70's (which featured a feuding with Leafs owner Harold Ballard), nor any mention of the now defunct Toronto Roadrunners ... nor the active Toronto Marlies! (Heck, I even had to include the Marlies on the chart of Professional sports teams myself! Though they are a farm club, they are not a semi-pro sports teams!) If anybody has the time to include any salient notes about those three teams into the hockey section, I would strongly recommend it be done! Just a thought! Amchow78 16:39, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

While I'm begrudgingly ok for the time being with those other hockey teams being categorized into "see also" vs. "main article" in the Professional sport in Toronto page (both provide links to their respective articles), I still have a bit of a problem with speculation of an NHL team in Hamilton (which likely won't come to fruition) taking up three paragraphs over pro-hockey teams in Toronto that have been in operation over the years having zero paragraphs. I saw the edit history of how the NFL speculation paragraph(s) was trimmed down considerably. Using that as a precedent, the NHL talk would likely follow the same criteria, would it not? Also, I think that there are some who would look to this page for historical value as well ... and with an article such as this, it would be only appropriate that it takes equal billing to the Leafs as it should be an examination of the pro-sports landscape of the city from the past, present & future. To say that the talk of a proposed team is more "relevant" than those other teams is subjective IMO. It's as though those other teams are being trivialized when I feel it shouldn't if we're talking about pro-hockey as a whole in Toronto. Amchow78 17:57, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
Personally, I see no point in having the "speculation of an NHL team in Hamilton" in this article either, especially given that Balsillie doesn't even own the Predators yet. By all means, trim this down! As far as the links are concerned, it's not as if I've removed anything - I've simply grouped things that, in my opinion, seem to go together. In this case, NHL hockey versus all other pro hockey in the city. I realize this is subjective, but it also allows the reader to scan the list more quickly. I think it already has "equal billing" by being linked prominently right after the headline.(BTW: when I wrote my edit summary, I was specifically thinking of the Leafs article; the Second NHL team article was thrown in after it since it fit most closely with the topic of the Leafs, instead of the other group of articles. I wasn't trying to trivialise the other pro hockey teams.) Mindmatrix 19:05, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for clearing that up! In the meantime, I've removed the speculation paragraphs & replaced them with brief info on the Toros, Roadrunners, & Marlies ... something I just whipped out off the top of my head (Roadrunners & Marlies) & from brief extractions from other articles (Toros). For anyone who wants to re-insert the speculation info, please keep it brief! Amchow78 18:14, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Toronto FC

Guys, while I'm not a fan of any means. I do have to recognize that this had to have been written by Bob Mccown (guy from Sportsnet, anti-soccer commentator)

"the Toronto FC lives in a paradox of being considered a minor and largely ignored team by the citizens of the city it represents, while at the same time, through the global popularity and media coverage of soccer, it is being arguably more world famous than many of the teams that play in the Big Four leagues (NFL/CFL, NHL, MLB, and NBA)."

- For a team that was officially voted throughout Canada as the biggest success story of the year (with Ottawa Senators coming 2nd, yes you read right), and by an overwhelming majority of the writers (from the Sun and Star) as the biggest success story of the year (tied with the FIFA world cup U-20). that quote is very misleading. - Toronto FC surpassed the Raptors, Blue Jays in season tickets in their first season. - The TV ratings were nothing short of extraordinary. - And out of all the people talking and raving about Toronto FC, the only ones who showed disinterest are the insecure 4th or 5th Generation "white-anglo-traditonalist" Canadians (Such as Bob Mccown <who is American actually> who predicted that "Toronto FC would not have more than 2000 season tickets" <then snubbing that the first 13,000 season sale was a miracle and would not continue on again < By the way, the next one is at 14K> - I recently spoke to the father of a friend (who works for the Air Canada Center, merchendize) and he told me that Toronto FC is one of their greatest draws, even outselling the Raptors for the last few months (and they are not even playing at the time).

- This team is being treated in Toronto as if it were a world class league team. And even the media is taking notice. I think that this quote must have been written around June or April of last year, because it makes no sense. (Foxfang) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.231.255.213 (talk) 01:13, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

- "TV ratings were nothing short of extraordinary"? Better do some fact-checking there - William Houston's TV sports column in The Globe and Mail publishes Canadian TV sports ratings every Tuesday or Wednesday, and Toronto FC TV ratings during 2007 are nowhere near those of the Leafs, Raptors, or Jays. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.242.24.90 (talk) 03:11, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Mahovolich4Kelly8.jpg

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BetacommandBot (talk) 00:49, 14 February 2008 (UTC)