Talk:Problem plays (Shakespeare)

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[edit] Disagree with article

I don't know my Shakespeare, but various sources somewhat disagree with this article. One site states that Merchant's of Venice is often counted among these, but doesn't list Hamlet. This online book (I guess it's a book) lists All's Well..., Measure for Measure, Troilus and Cressida, and 'sometimes Hamlet' (page ix). This Usenet post agrees with the online book. I guess I'll just update the article to state that Hamlet and Merchant's of Venice are only sometimes included. Just wanted to document why I'm making this change, and hoping someone more knowledgeable will correct it if I'm mistaken. -- General Wesc 21:00, 2004 Sep 9 (UTC)

'Problem plays' is the technical term for three plays he wrote in sequence. They come after the last of his pure comedies (12th Night) and before the first of his pure tragedies (Othello; Hamlet isn't exactly a tragedy), and represent some kind of transitional period. Hamlet came right before these three, so it's sometimes tossed in with them. Merchant of Venice, which was written a decade earlier, is not part of this group, as far as the technical term problem play goes.

This seems very confused. The term "Problem play" emerges in the 19th C to describe a type of play that addresses social problems - part of the wider phenomenon of Realism in the arts. It was extended to some Shakespeare plays in the light of these features of nineteenth century theatre. I am moving this page to Problem plays (Shakespeare) and creating a new page on the Problem play in general. Paul B 00:02, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Merchant of Venice seems too early to be a problem play. I first heard the term in association with All's Well, Measure for Measure, T&C, and Timon, and later heard it applied to Hamlet as well. I think that ascription would be fairly late and related to anti-semitism. I doubt the term was ever used for it pre-war, but I could be wrong.--Scottandrewhutchins 15:38, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

It's quite common to refer to the Merchant as a problem play (see here, for example). That's because it lurches between comedy and seriousness, and it constantly threatens to become a tragedy. I don't think it's because of anti-Semitism, except in so far as it sets up an unresolvable "problem" of justice by portraying Shylock as the bearer of an "alien" set of values that work against the norms required by comedy. The term Problem Play is fluid and has moved beyong its original usage. However, you are right about the date issue. Paul B 16:01, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Title

Back in December User:Rdsmith4 changed the title from Problem plays (Shakespeare) to Problem plays. I've changed it back to clarify that this is specifically about Shakespeare and not about the genre of problem plays in general. Paul B 09:01, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Troilus as comedy

Twice, it's said that all three are (nominally) comedies, but in the little Bard Box at the bottom Troilus is given as tragedy. Sort this out, ye Bardolators. 66.71.90.75 04:05, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Troilus is often called a comedy, but it is listed as a tragedy in the original folios. The template follows the folios, the article goes into more detail. That's why. Wrad 04:22, 25 October 2007 (UTC)