Talk:Prison

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Prison article.
Article policies
Prison is within the scope of the Law Enforcement WikiProject. Please Join, Create, and Assess. Remember, the project aims for no vandalism and no conflict, if an article needs attention regarding vandalism or breaches of wikiquette, please add it to the article watch list.
Start This article has been rated as start-Class on the quality scale.
Criminal justice Portal
This article is part of WikiProject Crime, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide on true crime and criminology-related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.
??? This article has not yet received a rating on the assessment scale.
WikiProject Crime To-do:

Contents

[edit] Voting rights

Aren't voting also restricted for Prisoners in the US in several states? Which would be unique in any democratic Country.

[edit] Home Office Report

There is a newer version of the Home Office Report with all the figures. The one linked to here is the 4th ed. There is a 5th ed. I don't know if that is the latest, but at least it is newer than this one. I don't know how to update the references and upload the new pdf. ass.

When I got a cop to arrest him, he said I attacked him. Fortunately, the woman was still there (she also wanted him arrested for a similar assault). The cop looked at the three of us, she and I had injuries and he weighed as much as both of us put together, and refused to arrest me, but when I went to court, summoned as a witness, the 300-pound ex-marine thug told the baliff that I had assaulted him, and I was arrested in court and jailed! Everyone was confused, because it was so strange, and jail was a profoundly educational experience.

When I went before the judge, I was released, and at least one other prisoner was CLEARLY innocent, and even the judge said so, but prisoners in some jails, at least are treated VERY badly. I'm writing from a small southern city with a HUGE jail they're paid by the state to keep full up, and 7 people have been found hanging by their necks, some, probably lynched. (A cop here told me they were going to hang a man in his cell to prevent the embarassment of a trial, since there were videotapes of the cops having shot one of his hostages -- basically turned her into hamburger.) 2 or 3 days after a cop told me they were going to kill him in his cell, the newspapers said he was "found" hanging in his cell (North of town).

Accusation NOT = guilt. Duhhh. Why have courts, or even laws? Why not just go back to vigilante "justice" and lynchings?

152.9.34.72: Hello, regarding your "Jail" entry. I completely agree with you, regarding the difference between the two terms. They should be distinguished by different entries. But what you've been writing so far will just get deleted as a rant and serve no purpose. Please write something better, a real entry for Jail, and will be become a valuable and instructive article for everyone. -- Decumanus 20:57, 8 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Since there is a considerable overlap in the terms, I would leave them in one section, with explanations as to the differences between prisons, penitentiaries, jails, etc. Note that jails are both used for those not convicted (or not even charged) and those convicted and serving short sentences. StuRat 02:55, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

Not forgoetting gaol, which is used mostly in the UK and Australia as another name for a prison. -- Longhair | Talk 03:08, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] slang terms

The first paragraph lists a number of slang terms for prison. I think this is valuable information and should be expanded. How about a section listing all the slang terms for prison? -- Spleeman 06:31, 30 Jul 2004 (UTC)

[edit] History of prisons

How about a history on imprisonment, and how widely it was used throughout written history. - Jerryseinfeld 14:28, 12 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Crime and punishment is a wide, very controversial and deeply politicised area, and so too are discussions of prisons, prison systems, the concepts and practices of imprisonment; and the sanction of custody set against other non-custodial sanctions and against the capital sanction, a death sentence. Some of these issues are discussed in the by country descriptions, below.

Actually, none of these issues are discussed in the article, or elsewhere, as far as I can tell. History, theory, and studies on the effectiveness of imprisonment, probation, and psychiatric care as punishments are touched on in criminal justice from 10,000 feet. Sounds like a collaboration of the week possibility. Tempshill 18:35, 8 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I'm thinking of adding a link to stanford prison experiment to the 'see also' section, but I'm hesitating because of the validity of the experiment, i.e. subjects were not professional guards or real criminals.--Janarius 03:03, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

Generally, it's considered that the Zimbardo prison experiment is a great look into psychology, but has little to offer specifically to prisons. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 76.185.10.3 (talk) 17:13, 19 March 2007 (UTC).
Incidentally, there is no history of imprisonment section, nor is it adequately covered anywhere else. This certainly should be remedied.

In the History section: Prisons can be stressful and depressing being away from their family, unless they killed them. Anyone have ideas what this is supposed to mean? OttoMäkelä (talk) 13:38, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] liberties

"A prison is a place in which people are confined and deprived of a range of liberties"

Please expand on this sentence. What liberties? In which jurisdictions? I am specifically curious about what happens to personal belongings while the owner is in jail. I've heard of people earning money in jail, etc. - Omegatron 23:48, Nov 13, 2004 (UTC)

---

[edit] Military Prisons

Thinking about starting a separate article for military prison. Opinions? --Jpbrenna 00:19, 22 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Yup Absolutely should be done. Plenty for an article; worth starting a stub and seeing where it gets to. --Tagishsimon (talk)

---

[edit] Anarchist Black Cross link

I'm just interested as to why the link to ABC was removed... it looks as it belongs there Beta_M talk, |contrib (Ë-Mail)


[edit] Political Prison

I'm not trying to sound biased here or anything, but shouldn't the listing of Guantanamo Bay be moved to Military Prison? It fits the definition given by this article much better. The installation is maintained by the US Military as a base for "unlawful combatants", just as the definition under the Military Prison subheading says.

[edit] neutrality dispute 03 May 2005

I would like the statement "70% of imprisonments are drug related" proven with factual evidence from official sources such as BJS reports or UCR data.

This is not a neutrality dispute, this is a factual inquiry. If you want to dispute this fact, use {{disputed}} not {{npov}}. I removed both your tag and the figure, as a little research seems to show that this figure is inflated if it is taken to mean all federal, state, and local prisoners at any given time, as it would seem. The true figure seems closer to a third but I don't yet have a source that I am confident in to cite an alternate figure. NTK 05:24, 7 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Visiting

Is there a name for the type of phone that inmates use to talk to visitors? --VolatileChemical 00:29, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Yeah, cell phone.


[edit] jail Vs prison

As an employee of a county jail I can tell you that there is a real difference between jail and prison. A jail is simply where accused persons are brought after arrest to await trial or arraignment on their charges. Most jails have a significant daily turnover of inmates. Prison is far more longterm. Prison is the facility for housing convicted persons after their trials. Todays prison systems are so overcrowded that they often release offenders after only a percentage of their origional sentence has been served. Regardless, neither is a place you want to go!


[edit] Psychology of prison

I have two thoughts on improving this article. One is the question of punishment versus rehabilitation. The US is very ambigous on which to go with but some countries scare people out of doing crime by having horrible prisons where people are routinely beaten. Other countries attempt to educate and improve prisoners so they can reenter society.

The second item is the psychology of jail. Why is being behind bars a punishment? This section should include the famous psychology study (which ironically i can't remember the name of). Where civilians were imprisoned in a university basement and other civilians were the gaurds and they actually became their positions. Vicarious 10:59, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

The Stanford prison experiment? -- Longhair | Talk 11:02, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
That was it, thanks. Although we have a full article on it we should have some of the resulting implications about jails in this article. Vicarious 13:37, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
There is no ambiguity in the US about the role of the prison. It is not about rehabilitation, only punishment. And prisons dont scare people from committing crime or do they affect the crime rate. And those horrible prisons you talk about are American prisons where 100 000 men will be raped this year (if not gang raped and on a regular basis).
Wrong. There are many attempts at rehabilitation, such as education in prison. This serves no punishment function. As for affecting the crime rate, they do by "removal from society". That is, while locked up, most prisoners find it impossible to commit crimes against those outside of the prison (with a few exceptions, like phone fraud). If all prisoners were released and it was announced that nobody would ever be imprisoned again, the crime rates would most definitely increase. StuRat 18:22, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Prison Population

this section also contains the sentence

New Zealand has the second highest prison population per capita amongst developed countries, with 169 prisoners per 100,000.

The remark has no source, and appears out of context. [1] suggests that it is only true if one regards Chile, Singapore, Israel, and most of central and eastern Europe and many others not to be developed. While I guess this is another discussion, the factoid appears unhelpful without substantiation. 125.236.184.109 00:20, 7 February 2007 (UTC)


this section contains the sentence

No data is available for North Korea(followed by two external links).

As the page is not about korea and only 3 countries are referenced at all - surely it would be better to represent the lack of info by ommiting the sentence. Or perhaps there is a more political agenda for its inclusion. DavidP 13:37, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

I agree, take it out. StuRat

The incarceration statistics for US prisoners statistics needs to reflect the most recent historical data from the Bureau of Justice..accordingly,

"On December 31, 2004 --

-- 2,135,901 prisoners were held in Federal or State prisons or in local jails -- an increase of 2.6% from yearend 2003, less than the average annual growth of 3.4% since yearend 1995.

-- there were an estimated 486 prison inmates per 100,000 U.S. residents -- up from 411 at yearend 1995. -- the number of women under the jurisdiction of State or Federal prison authorities increased 4.0% from yearend 2003, reaching 104,848 and the number of men rose 1.8%, totaling 1,391,781."

Source: BOJ, "Summary of Findings,Prison Statistics", Bureau of Justice Statistics

www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/ MGSBoca 13:52, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

I ll tell you what the population is. Its full of my people, black people. This page has more info the MLK and Nelson Mandle put together. Why "We all know that prison is full of blood thirsty black people". If it was full whites this page will be non exsitent. - BlackBrotherX7
I have a hunch you've not visited any prisons in Utah. V-Man737 07:02, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
Black people don't go to Utah. All yo mountain people scare black people, plus its too cold. We kick it in the south and Calfornia. You ever been to a Calfornia prison. Its all blacks and why? Because of tha LAPD. Its the white people gang - BlackBrotherX7

What! Mountain people scare plack people? Why is that? I don't smell that bad, I think. ^_^ V-Man737 00:51, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

No its not the smell, Black people love the smell of nature. Black people just are afraid of mountain people beacuse of Donar Party and Deliverance. Also black people don't like the cold. We like it nice an warm like Califorina, the South, Jamacia, and Africa. - BlackBrotherX7

[edit] Breakouts

Lots of famous prison breakouts need to be put in. - Anonymus

[edit] Cultural References

The Green Mile? This is more about capital punishment than prison life, if it WERE warranted, we might also include "DEAD MAN WALKING", Also, It looks like someone just slipped it in there rather crudely, who had no clue how to edit. I'm Removing. If you want to put it back, holler.


The Shawshank Redemption: does anyone know if prison actually does have this particular individual (such as Red) who can get stuff? how does it work? and where the money come from? ~~

[edit] prisons as for profit work camps

It seems to me vital to include mention that many prisons (private as well as state run) exist in order to make a profit on the labour prisoners.

Any discussion should also mention how having a prison system that makes money instead of costing money makes it in the interest of the government to imprison as many people as possible, instead of as few as possible. StuRat 22:44, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
I agree. Also, if that is said then providing statisics as to the staggering overrepresentation of black people and native people among the prison population would be important. 27 February 2006
I don't see how that follows. If governments make a profit off everyone in prison, why would that provide any incentive to arrest fewer whites than minorities ? And conversiely, if governments lose money on everyone in prison, why would that provide any incentive to arrest fewer whites than minorities ? StuRat 08:49, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
Because given that there is a situation where people are being held captive as a labour force for the profit of the government and the private corporations that they work with, and that this provides an incentive to imprison as many people as possible, it's important to look at the demographics of this population in order to understand how this has come to exist and understand the systemic issues that are at it's roots. It is directly relevant, and not co-incidental that this imprisonment and forced labour for government profit consists largely of people that already face systemic oppression and that people that have the privilege of money, light skin, etc are vastly underrepresented in the prison populace. For clarity, this could be referred to as a contemporary form of slavery. Quixote go 19:45, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
I believe the only effect here is discrimination against the poor. Poor people can't afford a decent lawyer and often don't know their rights, so get convicted on flimsy evidence, whereas the rich can hire lawyers who will bring even the strongest evidence into doubt. Since minorities are poorer, this means they do more time in prison. Wealthy minorities, like OJ Simpson, however, can get off despite overwhelming evidence against them. And whether the prison is profitable or not has no effect on this. StuRat 05:27, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
I agree that wealth (and class) are major factors in state targetting. But as soon as it is acknowleged that it is in the financial interest of the state to lock people up, and when we acknowlege that there is great disparity between who gets imprisoned for what so called crime, then you have to start looking at the demographics of who they are choosing to arrest and who they are choosing to imprison. The fact is that in Canada and the US black people and native people are vastly overrepresented in the prison population and that one factor in this is that the state relies economically on the labour of those they imprison, and that there is racial targetting (as well as income based) in order to create and expand this workforce and keep people segregated from the outside populace.Quixote go 01:51, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
I disagree. Most prisons in the US and Canada cost the taxpayers money, they don't make money. I don't personally know of any exceptions, although I suppose it might be possible. If you have an example, please let me know. StuRat 18:10, 20 March 2006 (UTC)


I have to agree with what has been said above.. This Wiki page is missing some very important points that should be included. Firstly it does need to point out that a large % of people in prisons are minorities. This is more of a point about poverty not racism, clearly poorer people with less opportunity and choices in life are going to stand a greater chance of turning to crime. A great example of this is the US system which currently has over 2 million people in their prisons and jails, of which over 1 million are black.

The other point is regards the prisons being profitable to tax payers. I do not think this is the case its likely that all prisons cost tax payers money,. However it can be argued that the country is saving money by having them in prison rather than on the streets costing even more for police / law enforcement. While it may not be profitable to tax payers, use of prison labour is very useful to businesses, who can use cheap labour in the local area rather than having to import from countries such as china.

While this only relates to US prisons and should be gone into in greater detail on the US prison page, It should be mentioned here as well, as the US will not be the only country with this form of policy.

http://www.nationalcia.org/video/Cutting_low.wmv (This is a promotional video by the National Correctional Industry Association for the US. It includes how it can be profitable for businesses to invest in local correctional facilities. )

I am against this form of exploitation for profit to businesses, and I consider this close to slavery and find the above video almost sickening at the way it talks about using prison labour. It also shows the US does have a motive towards being tough on crime and sending people to prison for long periods of time. Now I understand that we need to avoid just stating opinions, But this page should state some information about prison labour with out taking sides.

19:34, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Other Countries "Realistic" Figures as Well?

According to the last statistics by the Bureau of Justice Statistics (October 2005, "Prisoners in 2004), the "rate of incarceration in prison at yearend 2004 was 486 sentenced inmates per 100,000 U.S. residents". However, if one adds the jail population to that number one comes up with the more realistic figure of 724 inmates per 100,000 residents.

The chart lists 724 inmates per 100,000 residents, not 486. Do the numbers for the other countries on the list also factor the jail population into the general resident population?

MSTCrow 08:22, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Women in Prison (in the United States)

This section is written with poor grammar and zero citations to the "facts" it lists. If I was more knowledgeable on the subject I'd do it myself, but hopefully there can be some discussion on the matter. Such questions could include:

1. Why only in the US? If the article has a section dedicated to this (and I believe it should), should it not also mention other countries?

2. Are there any positives? It seems the article currently is heavily slanted towards villifying men on most accounts with regard to female prisoners.

And so on.

I too am not knowledgeable about the prison system - but this section reads like someone's blog. I'm going to ask an administrator's opinion on deleting the whole section. Simesa 02:16, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
Deleted.Timothy Usher 05:24, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
It definitely wasn't up to scratch, but it did raise some valid points. I'd like to see a section on the same topic done properly with citations. Women in prisons do indeed face unique challenges and I think deserve some sort of treatment within this article. · Katefan0 (scribble)/poll 13:15, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] wtf?

From the Article: "Vietnam has about 50 prisons. The majority of prisoners are Vietnamese."

why is this even in here?

"China is a big country, inhabited by many Chinese."-Charles de Gaulle

Hmm.Foster2008 01:12, 9 September 2006 (UTC)


[edit] POV?

In the Australia section, "These are extremely unpopular to most hippies". Is this sarcastic POV, or do you actually still call people hippies in all seriousness Down Under? --Illusio80 15:01, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] NPOV - Section 4: Criminal justice goals of the prison system

"This is founded on the "eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth" philosophy."

"By subjecting prisoners to harsh conditions, authorities hope to convince them to avoid future criminal behavior and to exemplify for others the rewards for avoiding such behavior; that is, the fear of punishment will win over whatever pleasure the illegal activity might bring. The deterrence model frequently goes far beyond "an eye for an eye", exacting a more severe punishment than would seem to be indicated by the crime."

"Executions, particularly gruesome ones (such as hanging or beheading), often for petty offenses, are further examples of attempts at deterrence.'' " "Are criminals inherently prone to illegal behaviour, or does crime stem from a failure of social policy?"


These are only a few examples of what is on section 4. These statements looks more like theories than facts to me... This section is in no way neutral, especially the reccuring "critics say that...". And, of course, the critics cited are all negative.

The only thing that I clearly understood there is that the author of this section is against the penitential system.

[edit] funding

we sould add how the prisons get their money to take care of the inmates 137.87.66.6 18:17, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Prison Management

Needs better description of prison design and philosophy. ie. Linear and Podular/Direct Supervision. And it could touch base on Inmate Behavioral Management.

I would suggest a separate article be composed on the subject of Objective Jail Classification as well. It would serve to give the readers an insight to prison workings.

NICIC website link if anyone would like to look into it.

--Epizoan 08:09, 18 March 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Prison Design

This entire section seems to apply only to modern prisons, and specifically to Western prisons. Certainly not 'all' prisons have education departments, or refer to units as 'cell's.

[edit] Discrepancy in Statistics

There seems to be some problems with the Statistics section, notably in the text it says the US prison population is 486 in every 100,000 people, while in the table at the bottom of the section it says the USA imprisons 740 people for every 100,000 in the populace. Which is correct?

[edit] Unclear or POV

In the section describing the reasons for a higher prison population in developed countries, the "gap between the rich and poor" is cited as one. I for one don't see the connection between higher prison population and a larger (albeit higher for all groups) distribution of income. Unless someone can explain it a bit more, I'm going to remove the statement because it seems out of place. Seriously, there is a larger income distribution in developed countries but I don't understand how that contributes to a higher prison population, or is just me? If you can elaborate or cite some source on that, please re-insert the phrase. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.176.209.119 (talk) 00:20, 2 May 2007 (UTC).

Yes, looks like a rather pathetic leftist argument. If you took out all the black people out of the statistics, the number of non-black inhabitants in prison in the USA would be comparable to the rest of the world percentage wise. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 203.27.158.224 (talk) 09:44, 2 May 2007 (UTC).
I agree. The gap between rich and poor is generally a lot higher in non-developed countries. A.Z. 02:47, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Turkish Prisons

Hi

The writing in this section was just awful, with run-ons and sentence fragments. Also no citations. I fixed what I could, but left it tagged.

69.88.88.11 20:52, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Types - psychiatric

I edited this section. I need to throw in a reference, but it was written in such an incorrect way. Psychiatry isn't used as a punishment, as it seemed to imply. In addition, involuntary commitment is never used to send people to a prison. This is a temporary hold to force a diagnosis or treatment.

Instead, psychiatric units are often housed in prisons. Also, as already written in that section, some psych hospitals to house inmates - either due to sentencing or prison behaviour.

Remember, psychiatry is a tool for diagnosis & treatment, although maybe a crappy one. It definitely isn't a penalty or punishment, though. Chupper (talk) 16:18, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Wikiproject Prisons

If anyone is interested, I have proposed a new Wikiproject concerning prisons here.--Cdogsimmons (talk) 01:05, 13 June 2008 (UTC)