Talk:Priozersky District
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[edit] Revert
I have reverted this edit for the following reasons:
- The addition lists the same volosts as the (cited) passage immediately above, except that it links to the articles on administrative centers of those volosts. Volosts and their administrative centers are not equivalent concepts.
- Finnish names are irrelevant here, because Finnish is not an official language of Leningrad Oblast. Finnish names may go to the articles about volosts if and when such articles are created.
- Territories of modern volosts do not match territories of the old Finnish entities one-to-one.
- Terminology and description of the district's administrative structure are inconsistent and partially incorrect.
- Districts of Leningrad Oblast cannot have an official language other than that of the oblast (which is Russian).
- Other Wikipedia articles cannot be used as references.
- The edit removed {{Reflist}}, thus hiding properly referenced section.
—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 16:47, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
As for the History section, it needs to be cleaned up because in its current form its scope is far too broad. This article is specifically about Priozersky District, not about the history of the Karelian isthmus and its surrounding in the past thousand years.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 17:03, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
Dear Ezhniki,
My name is Cemsentin1. I come from Turkey. Priozersk is found in northeastern shore of Karelian Isthmus and its history is similar to history of Karelian Isthmus. You probably fear from former Finnish names of it. Please, you don't former place names in Finnish, Turkish, Tatar, Chinese, etc. I don't fear from former place names in Greek, Armenian, Bulgarian, etc in Republic of Turkey. For example Konstantinople, who was former Greek name of Istanbul.
Priozersky district was part of Finland before belonging to USSR. What centers of volosts of Priozersky District? Can you write me, please ? If their centers of them are same of volosts' name then, can you write former names of them in page of it? Because, writing of former names is not corrupt territorial integrity of Russia. If you want to obtain information about history of the district then, I gladly aid you. Yours sincerely,
Directory of Cities and Towns in Leningradskaya Oblast' (Leningrad Province), Russia Krelian Isthmus --Cemsentin1 (talk) 18:28, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
Hi, Cemsentin! Thanks for your comments, let me address them in order.
- Priozersk is found in northeastern shore of Karelian Isthmus and its history is similar to history of Karelian Isthmus. The history of Karelian Isthmus belongs in the article about Karelian Isthmus, not here. Articles about specific areas of this region should only deal with the histories of those areas; otherwise there would be a lot of duplication.
- You probably fear from former Finnish names of it. Actually, no, why would I be? The places were a part of Finland, after all. The real reason for removing the passage is because the whole list describes exact same volosts as the (referenced!) passage directly above it, only it incorrectly uses the administrative centers for names and adds the Finnish names of the entities which existed on this territory in the past. Now, the volosts are administrative divisions of the district, and the district is the administrative division of Leningrad Oblast, and the official language of the oblast is Russian. Ergo, modern volosts do not have official names in Finnish. What's more, the Finnish names listed refer not to modern volosts, but to the entities that existed on this territory when it was a part of Finland. The way information is separated in Wikipedia, those names should be listed either in the History section of the articles about the volosts (but we don't have any written), or in the articles about the historical entities that existed in Finland. Case in point: it is alright to mention in the article aboutGromovskaya Volost that it is located on the territory of the former Sakkola municipality, it is also alright to list "Sakkola" as the name of Gromovo (and you'll see that it is already there), and, finally, it is alright to write a whole article about Sakkola municipality and cross-reference it with Gromovskaya Volost. Note how this approach conveniently separates the time frames, does not mix two concepts together, and yet provides continuity via cross-references. The bottom line: while Gromovskaya Volost is located on the same territory that Sakkola municipality was located, the two are very distinct entities. Referring to Gromovskaya Volost as "Sakkola" is just as incorrect as referring to Sakkola municipality as "Gromovskaya". "Sakkola" is not the former name of Gromovskaya volost; it is the name of the municipality which existed before the volost was established. It was more than an act of simple renaming.
- Priozersky district was part of Finland before belonging to USSR. Sorry, it was not. The territory of modern Priozersky District was a part of Finland; the district itself was established after the USSR gained control over that territory. Basically, this is the same argument as above—this was not a mere name change; the whole administrative structure was changed.
- What [are the administrative] centers of volosts of Priozersky District? Can you write me, please? Yes, I can supply you with the list of the names of the volosts' administrative centers no problem. Many of them already have articles, and those articles list their former Finnish names, which is absolutely correct. Those villages are the same as they were when they had been a part of Finland; only the names were changed. The names of most (but not all) of the volosts are derived from the names of their administrative centers, but it is important to remember that they are not identical (Gromovo, for example, gives name to "Gromovskaya Volost", but "Gromovo" and "Gromovskaya" are two different names).
Now, if you don't mind, please answer a few questions of mine:
- Why are you removing the cleanup notice from the History section? While the section contains valid information, it deals not with the history of Priozersky District, but with the history of the Karelian Isthmus, which is way too broad. The section needs to be condensed to only include information about Priozersky District or the territory on which it is located. The way the section is written now, it can apply to pretty much any district of Leningrad Oblast and the Republic of Karelia, which is not good.
- Why are you adding the links to other Wikipedias as a reference despite numerous explanations that it is not the right thing to do? Other Wikipedias should be linked to via interwiki links (those listed on the left-hand panel), and Wikipedia's policies explicitly prohibit using other wikis as references (because they cannot be considered reliable sources).
Thanks.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 19:10, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
