Talk:Princess Leia Organa

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Archives
/Archive 1: January 2006 - May 2007

1 meow
2 Bikini image
3 Leia's memory of her birth mother??
4 Golden Bikini Slave Outfit
5 Slave Leia wouldn't happen if..
6 First Kiss & Other Things
7 Bikini
8 Name Change
9 Merge with Princess Leia's Theme
10 to see straight to Florida

[edit] meow

Someone let in a cat? There is a "meow" in the text. cb

I removed it and warned the IP that put that in there. Darth Griz98 02:56, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Bikini image

Why is this such a huge image? Wikipedia isn't for titillation. This article should be a mature analysis, not an objectification, of the character.

That seems to be an overall problem with the article. Darth Griz98 00:24, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

While I agree that Wikipedia isn't for the "wow factor" when it comes to the costume, it is a pretty significant costume, and really does deserve at least some mention (and visual identification). I wholeheartedly agree that it was far too large, though; 150px seems just fine to illustrate the image, but not sensationalizing it. EVula // talk // ☯ // 00:31, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

I downsized it to 150px, it shouldn't exactly be the focus of the article, even though it is important. I've been working on copyediting that section too, it's a lot longer then the other summaries. Darth Griz98 01:31, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

I support retention of the image because it is probably the best-known Leia image from Return of the Jedi. I don't support (and have removed) the "forced to wear her iconic gold bikini" text reference because it is unnecessary in the context of the plot summary and is already captured in the inclusion of the image. Other views welcome. Euryalus 02:09, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

I think the "bikini image" is the best Leia pic we have in "Wikipedia." Think we should use it as the character's main picture? Theanswertolife42 21:41, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

I think that it's rather sad that the best pic of Leia we got is of her in the gold bikini. We should at least get a decent pic of a close-up of her face with her trademark cinnamon bun curls. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.112.195.74 (talk) 06:33, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

See this discussion for others' responses to this. I agree, it'd be better if we had an image of Leia with her "bunhair", but I'm not all that great at uploading images. Cinemaniac (talk • contribs • critique) 17:11, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Leia's memory of her birth mother??

How did she remember her mother? Amidala died moments after Luke & Leia's birth. I know both her and Luke have the Force, but Luke (who's more trained in the Force) couldn't remember their mother. Perhaps Leia was thinking of her step-mother (Mrs. Organa). This should be added to the article (not sure how). GoodDay 20:43, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

The only way for that to be added to the article would be to find a source, probably George Lucas himself, saying that it was Organa's wife that Leia remembered. Luke did ask her "Do you remember your mother, your real mother?", so I think it's safe to assume that some how she remembered Amidala through some plot hole or something answered in the books perhaps. Darth Griz98 01:36, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

I'm guessing plot hole. I mean, the Force. A gx7 09:21, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Check out this link http://blogs.starwars.com/ghent/26 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.49.154.34 (talk) 03:07, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

In the original Revenge of the Sith script, Amidala DID raise Leia while Luke was on Tatooine. This is because she didn't die in the original. I guess they changed it to be more dramatic. Like it wasn't enough already! Son of Jadoja 12:00, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Also, it is to be noted that George Lucas confirmed that Leia was in fact remembering Padmé, dealing with the stronger mother-daughter bond and Leia have a connection through the force to her mother. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.240.182.184 (talk) 03:06, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Already has been. See here. Cinemaniac (talk • contribs • critique) 03:10, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Golden Bikini Slave Outfit

Does anyone have any idea how the costume garnered such enormous fame? Sure, I'll admit Fisher looks very beautiful in the costume, but I'm curious as to why it has gained such a large fan base. Can anyone help with the answers? — Cinemaniac (talk) 00:07, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Realising that my question wasn't being answered, I went ahead and did some research. While I didn't find out exactly why the costume has garnered such fame, I did stumble upon some interesting, solid, and valid facts concerning it. (A lot of it is from IMDb and the Star Wars databank.) I've edited in this info for a number of reasons. Firstly, the costume is noteworthy in itself. Secondly, I've noticed that the article's been vandalized a lot for this very subject, so I hoped that presenting a fairly impartial view of the costume would, at the very least, discourage (or satisfy) the IP fandals who constantly ruin the page because of their obsession. I hope the new secion is good enough to remain in the article. If you have any questions regarding it, you know where to call me. — Cinemaniac (talk) 17:50, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

You have to see the character from the perspective of a boy in the 11-14 age range, seeing Return of the Jedi in 1983. The first two films established Leia's character, which was characterized by purity (white clothes, butter-wouldn't-melt-in-her-mouth attitude) and authority. The first two films had acquired deep significance in the imaginations of kids of that era, who might have seen "A New Hope" in '77 before they were ten years old. So anyway, here's this previously chaste character suddenly thrust into an overtly sexual setting, just as much of the audience are in the process of discovering their own sexuality.

It would be interesting to see if the tentacle porn that users sometimes edit into this article could find a legitimate home as an example in a separate "psychological significance of Princess Leia" article. Episodes 4-6 had a big role in many people's coming of age process. AdamGrant (talk) 17:25, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for answering. It looks like somebody else at Wired.com agrees with your "theory", so I'll add this so-called "theory" into the article and provide a ref.

"Tentacle porn"? Ha! Now that was laugh-out-loud hilarious! Don't think it flattered the IP vandals, though...

Finally, re the proposed "psychological significance of Princess Leia" article: That's not a bad idea. I tell ya, I'll consult my lawyer. And if he advises me to do it...I'll get a new lawyer. :P — Cinemaniac (talk) 03:27, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

I've taken steps towards adding citations and footnotes. However, these have all been for the section of the article I created (although I am thinking of adding a section about Leia's "cinammon bun hairstyle" and providing footnotes). The whole article (along with many other Star Wars characters like Luke Skywalker and Han Solo) are unsourced, I notice. But I can only do so much, especially considering I don't know where a lot of the statements in the article specifically come from. Anybody else mind taking a shot at it? --- Cinemaniac 04:28, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure if this is notable enough, but at this site, I found confirmation for some allegedly controversial material. According to that site, Leia, despite the horrible molestation she experienced from Jabba the Hutt, decided to preserve the golden slave outfit, apparently because it would be worth something. Furthermore, the site confirms that Leia did wear the outfit at least once when she slept with her husband Han Solo. It reports that shortly afterward, however, she had the outfit destroyed, disgusted by what it reminded her of. I don't know if that's speculation or not, so I put the info up here before I edit it back into the article. — Cinemaniac (talk • contribs) 16:59, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

To whom it may concern: Although leiasmetalbikini.com provided no link or source for aforementioned story, they apparently got it from here. While admittedly interesting (and much more well-written than a lot of other fanfic I've read in my years), it's obviously N-Canon, and therefore unverifiable speculation. Sorry about that, folks. — Cinemaniac (talk • contribs) 00:47, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

Hmm... I've found another source that reports similar info. I don't wanna get in trouble for not adding info that should be, so I think I'll go ahead and edit this back into the article for now, since it does seem to deal with elements in the Expanded Universe. Anyone who disagrees can discuss it here. — Cinemaniac (talk • contribs) 17:35, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

As you point out above, fan fiction is neither reliable nor part of the canon. I could add a story to fanfiction.net saying the gold bikini was melted down and used by Vader as a prosthetic limb, but that wouldn't justify the inclusion of this viewpoint in the article. I note that you have a second (more credible?) source to back up the fanfiction story. Could you post it here for furtehr discussion? Without it I would argue the "Leia had sex with Solo while wearing Jabba's bikini" sentence should be removed from the article. Euryalus (talk) 03:57, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

And on that note, the sentence is gone. Thanks for confirming my doubts. :) — Cinemaniac (talk • contribs) 17:42, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Slave Leia wouldn't happen if..

Have anyone thought, "slave Leia" wasn't in Luke's masterplan of saving Han Solo? It happened because Leia failed to escape with Han. She was caught with Han & without wearing her mask, so Jabba knew, the bounty hunter was a female human. So, what was Luke's real plan? After his friends came one by one to Jabba's palace, then he came alone. Was he trying to beat Jabba & his allies in the palace, not on the sail barge, like in the movie? I just wanna know.. Ario_ManUtd 12:17, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Apparently so, given the fact that Luke tried to make some bargains and then, when Jabba refused, Luke pulled a pistol on him. It seems more likely that Luke was planning on defeating Jabba and his goons in the Palace, but the enslavement of Leia, and capture of Han and Chewbacca, and battle with the Rancor, basically forced him to change his plans. --- Cinemaniac 04:31, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

Alright guys, while this is an interesting topic, Wikipedia is not a forum. Let's move the discussion somewhere else, yes? Arwen Undomiel ^talk 01:59, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

Agreed. Go to the unofficial Slave Leia MySpace page ([1]) and we'll spare Wikipedia of our discussions of everything about what REALLY went on between the scenes in Jabba's palace...::: —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.91.176.109 (talk) 20:04, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

The discussion in question wasn't concerning what happened to Leia behind-the-scenes at Jabba's Palace—which I do not wanna delve into—but rather if the "slave Leia" concept was actually in Luke's plan—which it clearly wasn't. But I see your point: Wikipedia is not a forum. — Cinemaniac (talk • contribs) 02:56, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] First Kiss & Other Things

I thought Leia's first kiss was Luke, or was that in Return of the Jedi? To be honest I think that the way the 'first kiss' passage is phrased is a perfect example of the overarching problem with this article - that it's far too casual. The article gives a complete summary of the films from Leia's perspective. I'm not sure that chronicling every one of Leia's appearances is the best way to describe her character. If it is, then they should be far more succinct and far less informal. David ovic 05:16, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

You're right; Leia's first kiss (on film, at the least) was with Luke, depicted in The Empire Strikes Back. The most obvious reason for this is because of the natural attraction that Leia had to both Han and Luke (and vice versa), and the tension resulting among them because of this. If I remember correctly, she kissed Luke because an argument broke out between her and Han, and it was possibly done to make Han jealous. Han and Leia wouldn't kiss each other until later in the film. Remember, it wasn't until Return of the Jedi that Leia was revealed as being Luke's sister. I'll try to edit this 'first kiss' passage to make it more succinct. Thanks for the comment. — Cinemaniac (talk • contribs) 00:41, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

I find this article cool. I sure am happy my real mother concerns have been added. GoodDay (talk) 16:35, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Bikini

I don't see why you all are reverting this image change. That shot of her in that metal bikini HAS GOT TO BE the BEST image of her on the Web! In case y'all haven't noticed, she is REALLY hot in that bikini! 76.213.150.5 (talk) 02:17, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Apparently you didn't realize that the bikini image was already being used—appropriately, mind you—in the metal bikini section of the article! Having the same picture appear twice in the same article is confusing and unnecessary. — Cinemaniac (talk • contribs) 03:13, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

I still don't see what the problem is. Practically everybody recognizes Leia in her metal bikini! The image is used on several other websites, and so is arguably the most famous photo of Leia. (Plus, she is smokin' hot in that skimpy bikini!) 70.245.24.112 (talk) 01:27, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

In case you didn't know, here's what User:Euryalus had to say at your talk page: "There is no consensus on the talk page for the insertion of original research of this kind. Feel free to start a discussion on it if you like but stop just re-adding it to the article. Wikipedia articles like this need to be based on the official canon of works, not fanfic inserts." Amen to that, brother! — Cinemaniac (talk • contribs) 02:44, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

The image used in this type of article is generally a simple headshot or full-body portrait of the character in their generic attire. Check out portraits used in Luke Skywalker and Han Solo. Some would say that Luke looks "smokin hot" in his Dagobah training outfit, but that's their POV only. I don't see the appeal of Leia in her metal bikini, and if I came to this article for information I'd much rather see an infobox picture that tells me something about the character herself. The current photo suggests that she is mature and takes her self seriously which is a far better description of her character than the metal bikini photo gives. David ovic 10:23, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Is Leia attractive? Sure. Does she look good in the costume? Of course. Fisher was twenty-six at the time, so it benefited her to let her hair down and show off her figure, as I'm sure the modest, butter-wouldn't-melt-in-her-mouth attitude of her character would eventually get tired. But is that metal bikini the real point of the sequence? Well, maybe. . . if you're Jabba the Hutt. . . IMO, though, the real shocker is that Leia was the one who managed to kill Jabba, not Luke or Chewie. She also improvised it skillfully, what with the chain and all (it brings to mind something from a 1970's gangster movie, although I can't remember which). That was the real shocker to me, when I first saw it, but most fanboys merely remember the bikini and nothing else, including what Jabba did to the princess while she was wearing it. — Cinemaniac (talk • contribs) 02:27, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Name Change

Is there any way that we could change the article's name to "Leia Organa Solo"? This would be a good idea, since Wookieepedia's article on her has the same name as I suggested. She currently (as far as continuity goes) goes by names such as Leia Solo, and even "Jedi Solo". I'm not saying we need to change her name to those names, I'm just suggesting a simple, Leia Organa Solo. Without the "princess" title.--Jedi Kasra (talk) 05:44, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

I might be making this up, but I seem to remember something about titles not appearing in article names (ie. George W. Bush is not President George W. Bush or Henry VIII of England, not King Henry VIII of England). I'm resistant to changing the article to Leia Organa Solo, but that's just because I'm biased towards the film canon and dislike the books >_> Leia Organa Solo is probably the correct name for this article, as much as I dislike the 'solo' bit :P David ovic 10:27, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Common name is the general rule and her common name is Princess Leia, Leia, or maybe Princess Leia Organa - making her last name Solo seems WP:Fancrufty to me.--Doug.^{(talk • contribs)} 15:31, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

I pretty much second Doug.'s comments. IMHO, I also think that "Leia Organa Solo" would be a dead giveaway to users not too familiar with these characters—however unbelievable that may seem—that she eventually married Han Solo. Cinemaniac (talk • contribs • critique) 16:01, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Merge with Princess Leia's Theme

I don't think that's a bad idea at all! It would certainly be appropriate—since Wookiepedia's page on Leia already has that title as a section—and would give the article a relieving boost. — Cinemaniac (talk • contribs) 02:34, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Thanks :) In addition to helping the theme article (which has no apparent notability on its own), I think it would be a nice boost to this article as well. Collectonian (talk) 02:37, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

BTW, I've noticed, by skimming the Theme article's history, that you've had to deal with an IP vandal who kept on trying to add the Leiabikini image. I and several others have had to deal with that same IP vandal over the past few days, and I thought you'd might like to know that he's been temporarily blocked. Kudos to you for handling the situation so well. ;) — Cinemaniac (talk • contribs) 02:46, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] to see straight to Florida

As a non native speaker I don't understand what is meant by that. Can someone help me, and, would it be relevant to add that information directly into the article? thanks.

It's a slang term - for a definition see the second meaning in the Urban Dictionary entry for all the way to China. Hope this helps.

I don't think the meaning can be paraphrased in the article without the explanation being longer than the quote and placing undue weight on a sentence that adds interesting colour but is not otherwise essential to a reader's understanding of the section. Euryalus (talk) 05:39, 16 April 2008 (UTC)