Talk:Princess Helena of Waldeck and Pyrmont

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Contents 1 Dowager Duchess 2 Requested move 2.1 Survey 2.2 Discussion

[edit] Dowager Duchess

Surely, upon her son's marriage, she was no longer the only Duchess of Albany, so she would have be en Dowager? ^† DBD 17:23, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Helena would remain the Duchess of Albany for as long as the new Duke had no wife to assume the title. Plutonium27 (talk) 21:05, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Yep. So yes, in 1905, she became the Dowager Duchess of Albany. Though her son was Duke of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha, and therefore his wife, while still technically Duchess of Albany, would've gone by this higher title. Therefore Helen was the only Duchess of Albany to use that title. PeterSymonds | talk 21:14, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Hmm, while those titles are true, shouldn't this article be title Princess Helena of Waldeck and Pyrmont because of WP:NCNT? Charles 21:19, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Torn really. On the one hand, she was the Duchess of Albany, just like Princess Marina was Duchess of Kent, and is not titled Princess Marina of Greece and Denmark. Then again, you have Princess Victoria of Saxe-Coburg-Saalfeld and not Princess Victoria, Duchess of Kent. There doesn't seem to be a consistency; what do you say? PeterSymonds | talk 21:25, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Hmm, I do feel that including the British titles is a little UK-centric and that we should back up a bit and take a more general stance. Princess Marina of Greece and Denmark would be a fine title as any other is. The *only* exclusions to the convention that I *wholly* endorse are the Russian grand duchesses by marriage, who frequently changed names., but they don't have a convention yet. That was a little off-topic though. I feel the pages should be moved. Charles 21:30, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

I agree about Helena. The thing about the later Duchesses (Marina, Alice Gloucester etc) is that they're most well-known as a Duchess. I wouldn't advise, for example, having Princess Alice's name at her maiden name, because barely anyone unfamiliar with the royal family will know it. Princess Marina is also commonly known as the Duchess of Kent, and not Princess Marina of Greece and Denmark, both in Britain and abroad. Do you think these are acceptable exceptions, as they go by their most common title? PeterSymonds | talk 21:37, 10 May 2008 (UTC)'

Hmm, you're right, although I agree most about Alice (all British peeresses by marriage seem to be at their married names if commoners by birth) and am iffy about Marina (although I'd support it anyway). Charles 21:40, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

(outdent) I'll file a requested move for Helena and see what happens. The discussion may leak onto the other titles as well, so consensus might help us move forward. Furthermore, what about Princess Louise Margaret, Duchess of Connaught? 1) I think if anything it should be "of Connaught and Strathearn" and 2) would it be more appropriate to title her Princess Louise Margaret of Prussia? PeterSymonds | talk 21:46, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

I think Princess Louise Margaret ought to be under her premarital title as well, I have come across her in many of my readings where she is mentioned as Princess Louise Margaret of Prussia. I also think that any encyclopedia should strive for a reasonable amount of internal consistency balanced with articles which are strong exceptions. Charles 21:56, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

I agree. I'll start a RM for her as well. PeterSymonds | talk 22:04, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Requested move