Talk:Prince Friso of Orange-Nassau

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[edit] Name of this site, Prince Johan-Friso of the Netherlands, is wrong!

There was not given an approval for a marriage with Mabel Wisse Smit, and the request for approval was withdrawn by the couple. However, they nevertheless married on April 24 2004 and therefore the Prince is no longer member anymore of the Dutch royal house. The Dutch royal house is a smaller part of the Dutch royal family and under the responsibility of the minister; those who are member are in line of succession to the throne. Therefore he lost his title Prince of the Netherlands, but because he is still member of the royal family (by birth) he is now only Prince of Orange-Nassau. Therefore his correct name (and name of this page) should be: Prince Johan-Friso of Orange-Nassau. Please correct this!

[edit] Not listed in official site

Below is the link to the "Who's Who" page of the official site of the Dutch Royal House: [1]

Why isn't he and his family included? Are they dead?

Because of his controversial marriage to Mabel Wisse Smit (who supposedly had an affair the criminal Klaas B.) his marriage was never ratified by parliament and consequently Johan-Friso is no longer a member of the royal house, in a legal sense, and no longer heir to the throne. C mon 09:23, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] His Royal Highness Prince Johan Friso Bernhard Christiaan David of Orange-Nassau, Count of Orange-Nassau, Jonkheer van Amsberg, van Oranje-Nassau van Amsberg?

I'm Dutch and to my knowledge it should be: His Royal Highness Prince Johan Friso Bernhard Christiaan David of Orange-Nassau, Count of Orange-Nassau, Jonkheer van Amsberg (without the surname) or Johan Friso Bernhard Christiaan David van Oranje-Nassau van Amsberg (without the titles). This is also according to the book "Titels, graden & titulatuur" by G.H.A. Monod de Froideville and F.A.S. Crena de Iongh-den Beer Poortugael. They ar both experts concerning names and titles of the royal family and the book is used commonly as source on the Dutch Wikipedia. Demophon 10:33, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

What is their reasoning for treating him differently from His Highness Prince Maurits Willem Pieter Hendrik of Orange-Nassau, van Vollenhoven, His Highness Prince Bernhard Lucas Emmanuel of Orange-Nassau, van Vollenhoven, His Highness Prince Pieter-Christiaan Michiel of Orange-Nassau, van Vollenhoven, and His Highness Prince Floris Frederik Martijn of Orange-Nassau, van Vollenhoven? Timeineurope 10:49, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

First I want to say that the logic behind name giving concerning the Dutch royal family is very inconsistant and a mess (the family has four(!) different surnames) :-)).

But, here is the royal decree (in Dutch): [2]

Passage in the royal decree: Hij zal met ingang van het tijdstip van de voltrekking van zijn voorgenomen huwelijk zijn: Zijne Koninklijke Hoogheid Prins Johan Friso Bernhard Christiaan David van Oranje-Nassau, graaf van Oranje-Nassau, jonkheer van Amsberg. Translation into English: He shall be named upon the beginning of the performence of his intended marriage: His Royal Highness Prince Johan Friso Bernhard Christiaan David of Orange-Nassau, count of Orange-Nassau, jonkheer van Amsberg.

The question, why? It is common in Europe (at least in the Netherlands) to use personal name (abrogated from now with NN) + nobility or royal titles, or NN + surname only. The reason why is because nobility or royals don't have a surname, and when they have it is in most cases a derivative from their titles. This is the case with Prince Friso: his surname is from now "van Oranje-Nassau van Amsberg" and his titles are "Prins en Graaf van Oranje-Nassau" and "Jonkheer van Amsberg". To use both would be incorrectly and is more or less double. In some cases in Europe nobility have indeed common (and famous!) surnames which is different from their titles, for example with the family Bourbon. They have a very famous surname, and the members were princes, counts, dukes or kings in whole of Europe, like Spain, France or Italy (each with a different nobility). Some members of this house are therefore named with NN + surname Bourbon + regional nobilty or royal title together. Or a (non-noble) civilian person with a civilian surname obtained a (new and different) nobility title from their king or queen, in this case it is : NN + civilian surname + nobility title, unless the title and surname are more or less the same (his children are NN + nobility title only).

Concerning His Highness Prince Maurits? Well, his father isn't a royal or from nobility, but his mother Princess Irene of the Netherlands is. According to nobility laws children only inherit their name and titles via their father. So, Prince Maurits surname is "Van Vollenhoven" amd him was given only the personal title "Prince of Orange-Nassau". Why in front of his surname (and not behind of it)? I don't know and it is odd... But it isn't for sure the common sense rule. Demophon 11:43, 2 September 2007 (UTC)