Talk:Prime Minister of Spain

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[edit] Position of columns

The name of the PM should be at the far left instead of the monarch, since we want to read about the main subject first. --Jiang 02:50, 15 Mar 2004 (UTC)

What do you mean? The PM names are at the left for me, just next to the related pictures, while the monarch is at the far right. I tried to check whether this is a "unicode bi-di" issue, but clicking "switch page direction" in firefox did nothing. Habbit (talk) 19:37, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] President of Spain?

Is there no pisition of a president of Spain? RickK | Talk 05:45, 15 Mar 2004 (UTC)

No. Spain is not a republic. --Wik 05:46, Mar 15, 2004 (UTC)
Per CIA Factbook, the Head of Government is called President of the Government (Spanish: Presidente del Gobierno), so yes, there is such a thing as President of Spain. --Cantus 05:54, 15 Mar 2004 (UTC)
Can you grasp the difference between "President of the Government" and "President of Spain"? --Wik 05:56, Mar 15, 2004 (UTC)
The point being, it is still called a President. --Cantus
Wik is right that it is never "President of Spain". As far as I know there is no country that has both a "president" and a reigning monarch. Precisely because of this "presidente" is commonly used as shorthand for "presidente del gobierno", but he's no more the president of Spain than the president of the United States Senate is president of the United States. -- Jmabel 06:06, 15 Mar 2004 (UTC)
OK, then ;) --Cantus 06:13, 15 Mar 2004 (UTC)
Stop this idiocy please. "Governors"??? --Wik 23:56, Mar 15, 2004 (UTC)
Given that both the Chief of State and Head of Government are listed, it is appropriate to call it List of governors of Spain. The page Prime Minister of Spain should not be a list, only a definition of what the Prime Minister of Spain is. --Cantus 00:01, 16 Mar 2004 (UTC)
Neither the king nor the prime minister is a "governor". A governor rules a subnational entity or a colony. And the list is mainly about the prime ministers, the kings have a separate article. --Wik 00:06, Mar 16, 2004 (UTC)
The Presidents of Spain ruled the First and Second Spanish Republics. --Error 02:58, 17 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Spain has a prime minister, in Spanish Presidente del Gobierno literally "Chairman of the Government". Spain does not have a president (a republican Head of State, which would be Presidente del Estado Español) but rather a King. — Chameleon 17:35, 19 May 2005 (UTC)

I'm Spanish, and i have to say that the definition of the word "President" depends from the Nation. So, the "President of Spain" has a diferent meaning than the "President of the USA". There isn't a general definition for "President". "Prime Minister of Spain" is an incorrect definition, it`s like if i called Tony Blair as "President of UK", or George Bush as "Prime Minister of the USA". This is not a correct definition. The only correct definition is "President of Spain".

Not at all. I'm Spanish too (hell, I could even post my DNI here to prove it), and the office is not named "Presidente de España", but "Presidente del Gobierno" (de España/la Nación/whatever). The literally translated title would be "President of the Government of Spain", as it has been argued here, but that very position (the chairman of a government council) has an English name by itself: Prime Minister. You argue that we call Gordon Brown (breaking news: Tony Blair resigned. Long ago) "Primer Ministro del RU" instead of "Presidente del Gobierno de RU". Well, that's true. So? There doesn't need to be reciprocity, so that's just non sequitur. The issue with a direct translation of the Spanish title is that in English "President" usually carries meanings beyond that of "head of executive", like "Head of State", and is usually associated with republican regimes. Both conditions are met with your Bush argument. However, you could say, that's the Spanish title! I'm fine with that, and "President of the Government of Spain" would also be a good title for this article, but "President of Spain" is definitely not. Neither in Spanish nor in English.Habbit (talk) 21:06, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

Ok... It's the same thing i want to say (better explained too (thanks, i forgot Gordon Brown XD)). The point that I wanted to emphasize was this: France and USA, both are Republics, but their Presidents have different political competitions, because the french President is the "Chief of State", and France also has a Prime Minister (Head of Government), but de President of the USA is "Chief of State", and "Head of Government" too. So, these two types of presidents are really different, although they are both called with the same name: "president". All the countries have different cultures, and differents names for "similar" things, all of us must respect this.

I'm spanish (another one) and I think the correct form of express the concept of "Presidente del Gobierno" is "President of Government" because, while Spain is not a republic, the difference between the spanish system and the english system is the Status Quo of the members of the government. British PM is a "first among equals" and Spanish President is the Head of the government (well, it colud be another form of express this), being the other members subordinates to him. sorry, my english isn't well. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Trancas3.0 (talk • contribs) 18:33, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Title of page

I moved this page from Prime Minister of Spain to List of Presidents of Spain, hoping it would stay there, but user Wik moved it to List of prime ministers of Spain.

Then I tried moving the page to List of Prime Ministers of Spain, unsuccessfully. The title Prime Minister should be capitalized, so this page should be changed to List of Prime Ministers of Spain or List of Presidents of Spain

--Cantus 05:52, 15 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Certainly not "Presidents of Spain". I couldn't move it back to the original title, so I had to choose a new one that made sense. --Wik 05:56, Mar 15, 2004 (UTC)
Well, isn't that sucky? Any admins that can do the trick? --Cantus 05:59, 15 Mar 2004 (UTC)

This article is not merely a list. Please make the move war between Prime Minister of Spain and President of the Government of Spain and not a "list of" title. --Jiang 09:08, 15 Mar 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Name/Date formats & Zapatero

Why are the earlier Prime Ministers in the format "Garcia, Juan" and the more recent ones in the format "Juan Garcia"? The earlier format is wrong and should be changed. And why is Zapatero here when he has not yet taken office? He could die tomorrow. The April 2 date is pure speculation. I will fix these errors. Adam 08:13, 19 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Well, now that you've most certainly looked at the source, you saw that there was a "TO BE DONE" message there to alert editors to change both name and date formats in first entries. I know it was wrong when I added them, but I didn't have the time to change them to the proper format. --Cantus 00:50, 20 Mar 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Removal of two military labels

Francoist presidents of the Government Torcuato Fernández-Miranda and Carlos Arias Navarro were NOT soldiers but civilian politicians. In addition, Arias Navarro was a INCUMBENT president, not an ACTING one

[edit] Requested move

Contradictory information: the "move template" at the top of this page suggests a move to President of the Government of Spain; WP:RM suggests moving to Prime Minister of Spain. Either would be an improvement on where it is now, but my vote goes to Prime Minister of Spain as where it really should be. –Hajor 19:58, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)

This article has been renamed as the result of a move request. The vote below is no longer active. violet/riga (t) 17:43, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] The article should not be renamed or moved

no votes

[edit] Propose that this article be renamed and moved to President of the Government of Spain

  • Support - As per CIA World Factbook. After all, we use Taoiseach instead of Irish Prime Minister across Wikipedia. Plus the current name —Prime Minister of the Government of Spain— is an absurd hybrid. —Cantus…☎ 21:26, Jun 19, 2005 (UTC)
  • support. Prime Minister and President (as Presidente means in Spain) aren't the same concepts —Preceding unsigned comment added by Trancas3.0 (talk • contribs) 18:38, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Propose that this article be renamed and moved to Prime Minister of Spain.

  • Support, –Hajor 19:58, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)
  • Support, of course. James F. (talk) 11:40, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)
  • Support. There are a lot of countries where the Head of Government is formally titled as "President of the..." but the position is best known in English as "Prime Minister". Certainly on the British media the office holder is never called anything but "Prime Minister". Timrollpickering 13:52, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)
  • Support -- the form most likely to be linked to and searched for. Jonathunder 16:11, 2005 Jun 19 (UTC)

[edit] Discussion

  • Comment - From CIA World Factbook:
    chief of state: King JUAN CARLOS I (since 22 November 1975); Heir Apparent Prince FELIPE, son of the monarch, born 30 January 1968
    head of government: President of the Government Jose Luis RODRIGUEZ ZAPATERO (since 17 April 2004); First Vice President (and Minister of the Presidency) Maria Teresa FERNANDEZ DE LA VEGA (since 18 April 2004) and Second Vice President (and Minister of Economy and Finance) Pedro SOLBES (since 18 April 2004) —Cantus…☎ 03:28, Jun 12, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Requested move (again)

President of the Government (Spain) → Prime Minister of Spain

Rationale: This debate was already held last year (see above), and it was decided the page should be at "Prime Minister of Spain" as this is the common usage in English. It has since been moved by User:Cantus with no accompanying debate, and a null edit made to the redirect page ([1]) to prevent an ordinary user moving it back.

—SteveRwanda 10:05, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Ok. I live in Spain and here we always says "El presidente Zapatero..." or "El presidente del gobierno". Calling it "Prime Minister" is a complete mistake! Actually, he's not he "prime minister" of Spain nor the government, and we never call him "El primer ministro Zapatero.." --62.57.162.108 19:05, 20 January 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Survey

Add *Support or *Oppose followed by an optional one-sentence explanation, then sign your opinion with ~~~~
  • Support - for reasons above. SteveRwanda 10:08, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
  • Support just move it back without discussion if it was a singular user and a vote was held about the issue before with clear consensus. Gryffindor 17:04, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
I've speedied this; no point in doing it again.
James F. (talk) 23:43, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Discussion

Add any additional comments

[edit] Move the list away

I think this article should be expanded to include the role and powers of the Spanish PM, both in the current democratic Spain and in past regimes, the method of election and dismissal, etc. This would make it possible to move the (huge) PM list away to some article called List of Prime Ministers of Spain and keep just the last part (since the 1975 Constitution). By the way, I think the list should incorporate the First VP of the Government (i.e. First Deputy PM) below each PM because, whenever the PM leaves Spain or is somehow incapacitated/unreachable, the 1st DPM becomes Acting PM. Thus, María Teresa Fernández de la Vega has been "in power" several times. Habbit (talk) 00:22, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Since no opposition has been voiced here, and since I've revamped List of Prime Ministers of Spain, I'm wiping the list here and leaving just the PMs since the democratic transition, with a link to the full list. Habbit (talk) 01:47, 4 February 2008 (UTC)