Talk:Price-Anderson Nuclear Industries Indemnity Act/Talk4

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Contents

Redundant Line

The line "The Act promises taxpayer-backed indemnity for extraordinary nuclear incidents while providing for limited compensation to victims." is both inaccurate and redundant, and should be removed. Simesa 10:03, 22 July 2005 (UTC)

I disagree with respect to redundant. Because the indemnity is "Legal" indemnification, while the compensation is "financial". You may have liability insurance on your house, but if something really terrible happened - in excess of your insurance - you would still be legally responsible, and if you commited a crime, your insurance might not cover you. That is not the kind of indemnity nuclear plants get. They have full "Legal" indemnity which means it is against the law for victims to sue a nuclear plant for damages - in excess of the insurance - now imagine that in any other context - it's disturbing, as much for what it does, as for the mere fact that some believe it is necessary. Benjamin Gatti

Redundant Phrase

Removed to Discussion "all nuclear reactors and" as redundant Simesa 09:16, 3 August 2005 (UTC)

Incorrect and Inflammatory Phrase

Removed to Discussion "The Act promises taxpayer-backed indemnity for extraordinary nuclear incidents while providing for limited compensation to victims." The Act doesn't promise that, it covers far more than extraordinary events, and compenstion to victims is not necessarily limited. Simesa 09:23, 3 August 2005 (UTC)

I think "Extraordinary Nuclear events" is the actual text of the Act - and certainly the intent. Benjamin Gatti

Unbalanced Phrase

Removed to Discussion "to the detriment of United States citizens" as unbalanced - we don't say that Congress believes it is to the benefit of the citizenry, although it clearly does. Simesa 09:30, 3 August 2005 (UTC)

Anytime you subsidize a lethal activity by restricting the right of states to protect their citizens from bad acts - it is to the detriment of citizens. Benjamin Gatti

Uncited Phrase

Removed to Discussion "The Act makes available a smaller pool of insurance funds to compensate people who are injured or incur damages from a nuclear or radiological incident than is required under law for all other corporations [dubious – discuss]." as stated twice and not cited either time. Simesa 09:36, 3 August 2005 (UTC)

This has been established and agreed to under mediation. Clearly this is the purpose of the law. Benjamin Gatti

Incorrect Phrase

Removed to Discussion "In addition, damage awards and punitive judgements are capped." which is incorrect in that awards are capped only if pool limit is reached and Congress does not act. Simesa 09:40, 3 August 2005 (UTC)

No punantive judgementts are excluded altogether - in fact state courts are excluded - which is where punative damages are awarded (by juries of one' peers) civil actions in federal court are taken before a judge I believe.

As to Mediation

I'm afraid Mediation has ended with little effect other than to preserve misleading information on the Wikipedia and in general to disrupt the wiki process. Because the pages have been unprotected by someone other than the mediator - the effect is that the mediator has lost control of the situation, and we are therefore operating under a new framework. Unless we agree to abide by the principles established in mediation voluntarily - we will quickly find ourselves escalating the edit wars. Benjamin Gatti

I reverted back to the last Mediated article. We're adhering to the Mediation rules - it's you that want to try to make the Nuclear Power article part of this Mediation, which it is not and was never agreed to be. You want mediation on Nuclear Power, file for it separately. Simesa 20:53, 3 August 2005 (UTC)
Um Ben, the article was taken off of protection when Ed left for vacation. How do you think we were doing text moves? We need to keep in mediation. We haven't resolved a thing. The reason why things went on hold is that Ed went on vacation, but he's back now. I see no reason to end the mediation process. FYI, the protection was taken off on July 20nd. It does NOT mean that mediation is over in the least. I don't think it's quite right that someone can just unilaterally end mediation. Besides, you knew that Ed was going to leave for a bit to go on vacation. You seem to be pleading ignorance here. --Woohookitty 21:37, 3 August 2005 (UTC)
Um, no WHK, actually it was restored after he returned - but perhaps during the time the he was banned for deleting VfD.
Please sign your posts. If you continue to not sign them, further action will be taken. Thanks. --Woohookitty 02:05, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

Look, as mediator, Ed has upheld my argument which is that government doesn't get a free pass when it comes to disputed assertions. That is settled. If Simesa wants to avoid another losing edit war, which apparently he does, then reeverting to the mediated version makes sense - I will do my part by being only equally radical in my edits. Benjamin Gatti

Fine Ben. Then let's put this up for arbitration. And by the way, show me where he said he upheld your argument. I want exact verbage and an exact quote. Your idea of "settled" is quite strange. Even if Ed made such an assertion, it would've been something that we would've had to agree to. It was mediation, not arbitration. Nothing Ed says is binding. And he will tell you that himself. He's said it himself many times. And by the way, your "if Simesa wants to avoid another losing edit war" sounds like a threat to me and it also sounds like bad faith. You are basically threatening him to stay in line with what you do or else. You have no chance in arbitration Ben and you know it. So give it back to Ed and we'll continue where we left off. My patience with your style is at an end. Wikipedia is collaboration. It is not threats and it is not someone unilaterally ditching mediation when he's decided that it doesn't suit his needs. I really wish you'd put your energies into something that can further your cause. Brother, pulling your BS on Wikipedia is not the way to do it. --Woohookitty 02:11, 4 August 2005 (UTC)
Whao there Who's who. Nobodies Threatn'in - aside from I think thats not allowed and all - I'm just thinking Simesa realizes he doesn't want to lose another edit war - so he did the right thing - that as they say is progress. You're right - nothing Ed does is binding - a point so many have found a way to make lately. Really - I mean are you at all up on what's going down? Ed's in arbcom - ah the irony - we went to the marriage counselling, and the shrink commited suicide. If you check - Ed agreed with my position that the government's opinion must be couched - there's reams of it there - if you need me to find it for you - then you weren't paying attention. I couldn't possible win any more in arbitration than I have won already - so I'm not going to be the one knocking on their door - but if my style offends you so much - why don't you discuss it with Uncle Ed? I'm not here to make friends - I'm here to make a difference. And I appreciate your participation - regardless of your positions, Thank you. Benjamin Gatti
Right, so you are going to use this to your advantage and beat the system, which has been your goal all along. By the way Ben, I am probably going to put a request for comment up for you to question your behavior through all of this. Thanks and have a nice day. I'm tired of dealing with you and it's time we get others to question your methods. And quit being condescending and quit acting like I'm being McCarthy...THAT is what offends me...not your style. --Woohookitty 03:12, 4 August 2005 (UTC)
I wasn't aware that McCarthy burned books - I was thinking more like Chairman Mao - who burned not only books but violins as well. (Apparently he was anti-violins). Censorship is censorship - you think you can draw the line between good censorship and bad censorship? Why you - if you why not anyone else? What uniquely qualifies WHK to decide what is proper censorship and what is improper censorship - once you admit that the item is factual - where do you get off censoring it. I welcome the opportunity to illustrate again the dangers of censorship - I would not look forward to what could only be described as an invitation for personal attacks. Benjamin Gatti
I'm on vacation, but popped in because Woohookitty emailed me about the unprotect. I'm pretty much tired of dealing with this intractable dispute, which appears to have been abandoned by its mediator. I'd support an RFC, or even taking it to ArbCom, but I won't be an active participant in anything until I'm back from vacation. The beach is 30 feet from where I sit right now, and I'm about to go dip my toes in the water as it sneaks up on 3 a.m. · Katefan0(scribble) 07:01, August 4, 2005 (UTC)

I reverted back to the last Mediated version, following the rules we said we'd adhere to until Uncle Ed advises us to do differently or someone files for arbitration - which, Ben, you'd lose.

I didn't lose an edit war - I took the proper course to deal with an ideologue. Simesa 07:06, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

If you read the Request for Mediation, and then the Mediators statement on the Request, I think you will see pretty clearly that I was indeed correct on the issure presented for Mediation - The Government is not immune from being couched with respect to its opinions. Perhaps we both won. Benjamin Gatti
I think we'd be all served well if you dropped this "win loss" mentality. Oh and I want to make sure that you guys are aware of the 3 revert rule. I will be watching it like a hawk. --Woohookitty 18:00, 4 August 2005 (UTC)
Are we in Mediation or not? If yes, then we should be using the Mediated version. If not, then there's nothing sacred about the "Mediator's last version" - and I intend to file for Arbitration. Simesa 20:21, 4 August 2005 (UTC)
I concur. I think it's time for arbitration. --Woohookitty 20:33, 4 August 2005 (UTC)
I'm satisfied with the outcome of mediation, and I'm satisfied that the pages are unlocked. There is nothing in mediation which supports your removing every negative fact from these two articles, and so long as i have 3 reverts, i intend to prevent you from gutting actual facts from the article without discussion. Benjamin Gatti
What would you arbitrate - Ben is violating the 1.5 reverts a day rule? - good luck, I may choose not to participate in that farce. Benjamin Gatti
We would be arbitrating which version of this article should survive. It would be a way of finalizing things. Otherwise, we're going to be at this for months and months and months. Mediation is supposed to end the dispute. It didn't end anything, which is shown by the continual reverting we're going through now. If you don't want to participate, fine. Our side will win by default and then when you try to change the article to the way you see fit, you will probably be reprimanded and then banned. It's not a threat...it's what happens when people violate the rulings of arbitration. As far as I know, we'd both submit what we want as the final version of the article and then ArbCom would decide which version should be kept. Their decision is final. Please don't feign ignorance, Ben. I mean really. You know what mediation and arbitration are. They are both designed to come to a final outcome. We haven't had a final outcome yet. Taking Ed's comments as meaning that you "won" is a complete joke. The issue of government being treated as authoritative is not our only issue here. And if you think it is, then YOU are the one who hasn't been paying attention. You are completely ignoring the whole issue of this article being tilted towards your side even more and also whether history should be included here and all sorts of other things. What you consider "facts" are actually opinion. That is another point of contention. Need some more? You refuse to submit to arbitration because you know that we would win...end of story. So spare us. --Woohookitty 21:25, 4 August 2005 (UTC)
My objection at this point to arbitration is that it seems a waste of what must be their valuable time. Arbcom is going to set a final version - which remains until it gets edited by who knows who and then what? You think there is finality? One cannot step in the same river twice. Aside from which they seem occupied with eating their own young at the moment. Benjamin Gatti
Arbcom prefers not to take up content disputes. But they do look at conduct disputes. · Katefan0(scribble) 21:53, August 4, 2005 (UTC)

Since Ben's actions have taken us out of Mediation, there is no longer any reason not to insist on an accurate, fully cited and non-pov article. Simesa 06:34, 5 August 2005 (UTC)

Ed Poor wants to continue to mediate, so I have reverted back to the last mediated version. Simesa 14:36, 5 August 2005 (UTC)
I'm in if Ed's in. I may go fall on my sword in another article, but when I'm back from being banned - let's roll. Benjamin Gatti
The mediation is not over until official decisions have been made and they haven't been. Ben is just gaming the system again by declaring himself as the "winner". And quit telling me I'm not paying attention. You must be a joy to live with. --Woohookitty 16:40, 5 August 2005 (UTC)

Wales Article on Wikipedia

We probably all should read [1] Simesa 16:57, 5 August 2005 (UTC)

Well ways of treating bad actors need to be added to Wikipedia. --Woohookitty 18:51, 5 August 2005 (UTC)

Just exactly as soon as we agree on ways of defining bad actors. In fact - if I get to pick who is a bad actor - i'll let you decide what to do with them. Benjamin Gatti

It will be done by consensus I am sure. --Woohookitty 19:23, 5 August 2005 (UTC)

It will be done with consensus in keeping with established and Prefacto rules? - or _just_ consensus? May I remind you that both the Holocaust and the enslavement of blacks was done by consensus. "Consensus" buys you zero moral highground. Even suggesting that it does places you in rather dark company. Benjamin Gatti

Have you looked at the vfd pages? Everything on here is done by consensus. Everything. I am not looking to buy moral highground. Not everything is a battle, Ben. I was just stating the fact. For once, leave it at that and don't try to make a battleground out of it. --Woohookitty 19:51, 5 August 2005 (UTC)

Back from being banned in violation of written rules - but hey what are a few rules amongst friends

Let's roll. Benjamin Gatti

I'm surprised it took that long. --Woohookitty 14:34, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

While I may have stepped on 3RRs before, and I may have leaned on a few other rules - in this particular case, I was objectively right, and the action was a deviation from written rules - but what are a few rules amongst kings? Benjamin Gatti

Price-Anderson Extended

The President signed the Energy Policy Act of 2005 today - Price-Anderson extension to 2025 was in there. Simesa 20:01, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

With the signing of the Energy Policy Act of 2005, this article became inaccurate. After advising the Mediator, I changed the numbers but not the text. Simesa 00:25, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

No Objection - for the sake of currency, I suggest you take a liberal hand with including the latest "No Lobbyist left behind Bill" in the article. Particularly how it was necessary in 2005 - after 40 some years of development for the industry to have "special case" insurance at taxpayers expense. Benjamin Gatti

Proposed added phrase

Ben has proposed adding the following phrase to the end of the intro:

"In recognition of the continuing fact that even future nuclear power plants will be far too expensive and dangerous to afford liability insurance and still compete with safe and clean wind power, the Republican dominated House of Representatives extended the provisions of Price Anderson insurance subsidies in the Energy Policy Act of 2005."

I have not seen a source indicating that the House of Representatives concedes that. My reading of the House's actions are exactly the opposite. Simesa 06:51, 15 August 2005 (UTC)

By including it in the Bill - they concede the contained facts. Nuclear still needs a serious leg up to compete. The 50% subsidies concede it. As do the Insurance provision concede the fact that they are necessary. We argue that Price is necessary for nuclear - why - because without it - nuclear would be uncompetative. If they had to pay their own insurance - they couldn't compete on price - is their any other way to see it? Benjamin Gatti
My personal interpretation is that Congress feels that the plants are safe, $10 billion is sufficient and the government is not taking on any significant risk - but that's uncited and/or pov and doesn't belong in the article, let alone in the intro. (I think we do have cites that paying for the insurance isn't a big deal, getting it at all is.)
The subsidies I interpret as a one-time motivation to get past the next round of new government regulations, as they only kick in if there are construction delays - after UP TO six plants, there are no more construction subsidies. Again, pov, as I know of no one who has explicitly said this. Simesa 21:42, 15 August 2005 (UTC)
You might as well argue that agriculture is not competitive because it is subsidized, and we should all go back to hunting and gathering! pstudier 23:17, 2005 August 15 (UTC)
Agriculture in this country propbably is not competative so long as we allow the importation of child labor-produced fruits from foriegn countries which themselves subsidize agriculture because it is an export. Yeah, I don't have any magic bullet for untangling the subsidy/free trade problem, but I think we can be as honest about it as possible. I think (wasn't it your referance) that 95% of subsidies go to nuclear is important and telling. and the fact that "Safety Insurance" is the area of the subsidy is also telling. If nuclear is safe - we should shout it from the rooftops. And if not as well. Price Anderson is as clear an admission as one is likely to get that nuclear plants CONTINUE to be dangerous - even future plants. Benjamin Gatti
Again, I disagree with your interpretation that Price-Anderson is an admission that nuclear is unsafe. But if you can find a cite, I'll vote for putting it in Criticisms. Simesa 01:04, 16 August 2005 (UTC)

Status?

What is our status? Are we happy with the article or are we all taking vacation at the same exact time? :) --Woohookitty 11:51, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

I think our limiting factor is Uncle Ed. I'm available daily except Saturdays. Simesa 17:48, 6 September 2005 (UTC)
I think the world has taken itself by storm. I'm pretty busy despising the administration for much more than an absurd energy policy. BTW, did you realize that marriot is invested in synthetic coal because it saves them 405 million in federal taxes? Why, if we're going to have pork barral projeccts - aren't they at least aimed at something safe and renewable?

"I will protect you." Dick Cheney 2004

Benjamin Gatti
Ben, go start a blog. That's where all of your rantings belong. NOT here. Applying your passion to Wikipedia is a waste. It's pointless. Wikipedia is not a massive blog. Not not not not not. --Woohookitty 04:18, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

Text

Could someone provide a weblink to the complete text of the act, please, so that (I hope) everyone can make her/his own judgment? Mami 15:43, 15 September 2005 (UTC)

The original act was passed some years ago - its "provisions" as extended, which continue to bear the name of the original act, are contained in the Energy Policy Act of 2005 (Have fun with that. It's probably not the best or fastest way to get up to speed on the act. I doubt the Senators who voted on the Act actually read it. Perhaps the GAO analysis is the more broadly accepted synopsis.) Benjamin Gatti
I tried in vain to find the act during the mediation process and I couldn't find it. Just isn't out there. --Woohookitty 01:50, 16 September 2005 (UTC)
Since "Acts" are generally a list of additions and modification to existing law, one can often find the substance of acts in the sections of law they affect. If I recall, Price Anderson initially is fairly well contained in a single section of federal code - which again would show up in the Energy Policy Act of 2005 (where I believe little more than the dates were changed to extend the provisions.) The Act was written in 1957, a number of years before everything was expected to be on-line in real time. Benjamin Gatti

Thanks for your effort anyway. Mami 13:59, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

Mediation Status

In order for mediation to be declared over, either the mediator needs to declare it over or the parties must agree that everything is agreed to. Neither has happened here. Ben, you cannot unliterally declare it over. I think we need another mediator. I know you feel like you "won", but we 3 do not agree with you. So we need another mediator. Our mediatior getting into trouble does not end mediation. --Woohookitty 01:10, 25 September 2005 (UTC)

I think as a practical matter, the mediation has wound down. I will consent to "calling it a draw" and recognize that we have made progress, at very least in terms of understanding each other's points of view. I suggest if someone wants mediation - they should go through the regular channels. - and for the record, I have no problem with Ed continuing to mediate, but he'll have to show up; at this point its been several months with no progress - we all have to move on. Benjamin Gatti
I don't agree that it's over and I highly doubt that Simesa and kate will either. --Woohookitty 02:30, 25 September 2005 (UTC)
We'll I suppose that approximates what some would call pergatory, and others might term nervana. I'll accept that "it's on" when I see some forward progress, until then, I would consider it to be mutually suspended. Benjamin Gatti
Btw, mediation is not a win or loss scenario. It's not a "draw" or a "win" or a "loss". --Woohookitty 04:01, 25 September 2005 (UTC)
It is certainly not over, and I'll resist any unilateral changes, Ben. · Katefan0(scribble) 04:48, 25 September 2005 (UTC)
And yet it is Woohoo who suggests that it is about winning (see above near "won"). I hate to interfere when one is arguing with one's self. I'm open to hearing from anyone, including Ed, or anyone else masquerading as a mediator. In the meantime however, I have to recognize that from a factual matter - there's no a whole lot of mediat'in going on 'round here. Benjamin Gatti
Excuse me, but what are you talking about? I was saying that you seem to think it is about winning or losing. That's how you treated it up above. --Woohookitty 23:46, 26 September 2005 (UTC)
The Tedium meter just hit ten, but for the sake of participation, it seems that you are discussing mediation in terms of winning and losing, and then change you're mind - leaves me wondering would you suggest that arbcom isn't about winning either?
I'm going to stop engaging you in these types of discussions. You are just a playground bully. I know what I said. You are just twisting it to start a fight. --Woohookitty 01:19, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

In the interest of mediat'in - What is the issue to be mediated? In what way is any party unsatisfied with the status quo? (1) (2) Benjamin Gatti

Simple. You showed a couple of days ago that you still want to add POV material to the article. We need to go through mediation or arbitration to come up with a final version of the article that we are all happy with. And then that will be it. No more adding stuff about how it's a handout to the nuclear industry and all of that jazz. How can you possibly say that mediation is over when you are still adding stuff like that to the article? The whole point of mediation is to come to a FINAL decision on the article. Final means final. It means no more adding of stuff like you tried to add 2 days ago. In fact, doing what you did could be grounds for a request for comment opened up on you if mediation was indeed over, which it isn't. --Woohookitty 01:19, 28 September 2005 (UTC)
My chief objection is that it is hard to understand how the Act works from this article. That section needs to be re-written. And I agree that we have to reach a formal conclusion, at least between the four of us. Simesa 01:34, 28 September 2005 (UTC)
I agree. The whole point of mediation or arbitration is to end the discussion...to end hostilities so to speak. And yes, honestly, reading this article, I don't quite understand how it works. I mean do nuclear power plants and such petition for the money or are they given it automatically or what? --Woohookitty 04:27, 28 September 2005 (UTC)
On that point - the Supreme court has included a paragraph of its own finding about "How the Act works" I suggest that we fully incorporate the Supreme courts brief description of the act. This has the elegance of being vetted by the leading authority - and it is not overly verbose - we could agree on some 6th grade english for the parts that need it, but I have great faith in that approach over continuing to argue amongst ourselves who is the least biased and rightly fit to translate the act into the common tongue. Benjamin Gatti

Sorry to neglect you guys so long. My status at Wikipedia has changed somewhat, but if you still need me as a Mediator, I am willing to continue. Uncle Ed 03:19, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

If you're game and you care to participate - I believe I speak for all of us (in this alone) when I say that you have been missed - and that in your absence, we have been little more than treading water. With respect to the current mattter at hand - there is a general complaint (including by outside interested parties which have contacted me via email) that this article fails to effectively describe the act. I have proposed as a start that we incorporate to the extent possible the actual text of the Supreme courts interpretation because there isn't really a better analysis, and much as I respect Simesa's views on the technical operation of a nuclear reactor, I doubt that any of the current editors can lay claim to a legal understanding that exceeds that of the SCOTUS. Does anyone object in principle to that approach? Benjamin Gatti
I concur. --Woohookitty 05:17, 29 September 2005 (UTC)
Sounds like a good solution. Simesa 12:01, 29 September 2005 (UTC)
Glad to have Ed back, but I'll reserve judgment on whether or not the Supreme Court's text -- as inserted by Benjamin -- is properly represented or adequate at all. I noted that he inserted some Supreme Court text, but removed the properly sourced text about Congressional intent. If that's your solution, to me it's no solution at all. · Katefan0(scribble) 13:09, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

Attribution of views

Do we all agree that the Supreme Court of the United States is:

  • is composed of human beings
    • who are fallible
    • who were each appointed by a U.S. president
      • and confirmed by the U.S. Senate
  • renders opinions which are
    • sometimes unanimous
    • sometimes split (even closely split, like 5-4)

I have another question based on this, but let's ease into this, shall we? Uncle Ed 16:51, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

Agree

Concur. Simesa 17:54, 29 September 2005 (UTC)
Unquestionably. Benjamin Gatti 00:23, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

Disagree

Neutral/other

Would like to see what the other question is based on these before I answer. · Katefan0(scribble) 21:21, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

Sorry, I forget what the next question was going to be! Uncle Ed 16:27, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

So we have agreement to accept the Supreme Courts "take" on the act as authoritative. Excellent work. I'll get it pasted in as soon as I get a better connection. Cheers, Benjamin Gatti
I think using the Supreme Court is potentially fine, depending on what you intend to "paste" in. If in doing the "pasting" you delete other content, no, I don't agree to that. · Katefan0(scribble) 16:48, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

Not so fast, Ben. I don't see the "agreement" above as implying that the Supreme Court's take on anything should be considered authoritative. Can we confirm that, please:

US Supreme Court opinions regarding nuclear power, insurance and indemnity shall be considered authoritative for the purposes of writing and editing the Wikipedia article on the Price-Anderson Nuclear Industries Indemnity Act (Where the decision is supported by a margin > 1, and is substantially uncontroverted, and where the legislature has not since substantively ammended the relevent language, and where no lesser court has since concluded otherwise) (added by Benjamin as suggested qualifiers)

Support: Benjamin Gatti 02:42, 5 October 2005 (UTC) Oppose:

Other:

I knew something would follow from the above poll, but I didn't have this specifically in mind. I was following my intuition. (I thank my wife for helping me learn to trust my intuition more. *kiss, kiss*) Uncle Ed 17:22, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

I'm not sure how to fit this in above, so I'll state it separately. I think what we're looking for here is "findings of fact", as in "the Court finds the following facts to have been proved by a preponderance of the evidence. The Court shall state the conclusions of law to be drawn therefrom in a separate Memorandum and Order to be filed in due course." I believe that the legality of Price-Anderson is an issue already settled. Simesa 17:48, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

I don't mean to seem obstreperous, but I don't want to get railroaded into agreeing to something sight unseen. What exactly are you talking about adding, here? I would much rather talk about whether we agree with the specifics of language proposed to be added than ask folks to agree to these definitive but rather uncontextual statements just hanging out in the ether. · Katefan0(scribble) 17:51, 6 October 2005 (UTC)
-To Simesa - I would jump at the opportunity to overturn the Price case, and I think it quite possible - remember the case was prior to Chernobyl, and thus the potential for damages was largely speculative rather than demonstrable. Moreover, the presumption was that nuclear energy was critical and meaningful, I doubt the State would be given as much room to argue that nuclear is so important as to justify suspending federalism these days etc. That said - I find the Supreme court's analysis of the law to be persuasive. I do not find their decision with respect to it's Constitutionality equally persuasive - but that point is not contended. It has been tested and it has passed muster - for now. I am merely suggesting that their finding - not of the risks etc, but of the "workings" of Price Anderson, and the transfer of liabilty schedule is clear, concise, and quite likely the single most responsible summary of the act - "they" say no one gets fired for buying IMB, I suppose in law, no one gets fired for quoting the Supreme Court - and that's why I suggest we do so. It avoids partisanship, and really any claim of bias. Benjamin Gatti
My head will commence spinning in 5, 4, 3, 2...--Woohookitty 02:41, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
Why keep us in suspense? Why don't you just post a link to the court's decision? pstudier 05:39, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
Because Ben likes drama. lol --Woohookitty 10:58, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

Supreme Decision

DUKE POWER CO. v. CAROLINA ENV. STUDY GROUP, 438 U.S. 59 (1978)

Here the opinion. Benjamin Gatti

Read - no surprises, except that the Tucker Act provides a further remedy even beyond Congress's backing. Simesa 07:25, 11 October 2005 (UTC)
Is it just coincidental that Ben lives fairly near both the plants discussed in the opinion, McGuire and Catawba? Simesa 09:47, 12 October 2005 (UTC)
I was 8 years old when this was decided. And I lived in california. I would suspect that I live outside the DMZ of either plant, so it's probably not very meaningful either way. All the same, I'd be happy to make the same argument again, I think the Supreme Court decision was biased by the speculative nature of the industry at the time. Benjamin Gatti

How the law works

There being no one paragraph in the Supreme Court decision to quote, how about this for "How the law works":

In the Act, power reactor licensees are required to have $300 million worth of primary insurance as of 2005. Also, each power reactor must pay up to $95.8 million in the event any of them has an accident. The pool of money — which as of 2004 stood at about $10 billion — is contributed by the nuclear industry. In the event that claims deplete the pool of funds, the Congress of the United States is required to consider covering the excess amounts, possibly by establishing additional assessments against the industry.
Price-Anderson covers DOE facilities and contractors such as the USEC uranium enrichment plants, national laboratories and the Yucca Mountain disposal site.
Nuclear insurance pools have paid $151 million ($70 million of which was related to the 1979 Three Mile Island meltdown) and the DOE $65 million since Price-Anderson was enacted.

Simesa 07:25, 11 October 2005 (UTC)