Talk:Post-feminism

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[edit] Citations

I began working on re-doing this article to be more akin to the usual definitions of post-feminism. While I am well versed in post-feminism, I apologize for my lack of ability to properly format citations. Clm17 17:52, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

Citations are pretty easy on the wiki. Wherever you want to add one, just surround it with <ref></ref>, then, in the references section, add the tag <references />. So, for example:
<ref>Wittgenstein. Philosophical Investigations. Blackwell Publishing, 2001.</ref>
will add a footnote. Or, if you don't want to bother with all that just add references in standard MLA style and send me a note when you're done and I'd be happy to add the proper wiki tags. Thanks for working on this article! Its needed it for a while! -Smahoney 05:00, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Problematic?

I think this entry is problematic. Do Jeannette Winterson and Judith Butler consider themselves post-feminist? I highly doubt it. The only self-proclaimed post-feminist I know of is Camille Paglia. The term is extremely problematic because it implies that feminism is dead. How can feminism be dead when the concerns addressed by feminists have not been resolved?

I don't think that the name post-feminism implies that feminism is dead per se, but, or at least the idea is, that certain central themes of feminism are no longer helpful and need to be dropped. Regardless, no, I don't think Judith Butler considers herself a post-feminist. I'll try to look up the reference on that. -Seth Mahoney 05:57, Mar 15, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Ally McBeal?

I don't understand how the TV show Ally McBeal can be considered "post-feminist." How is it a challenge to the binary construction of gender? I understand including Winterson -- Written on the Body is fundementally about the destabilization of the male/female. But I guess I'm a little lost on Ally. --Rachiestar 02:47, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] How common?

How common is this usage of post-feminism? Frankly, I haven't heard of it. Whenever I do hear the term post-feminist/postfeminist used by gender theorists it's to refer to the notion proposed by media that feminism "died" in the 1980s due to a lack of necessity, among other things (a notion, however, that has been largely discredited - see Hall / Rodriguez 2003 and Aronson 2003). Sarge Baldy 06:21, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

Yes, Sarge Baldy is right -- that's the only usage I've heard. This entry needs to be totally re-written, I think. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 147.124.54.211 (talk • contribs)

Yeah. I have only heard of it to mean the consideration of the rights of women as tantamount to the rights of all people, taken out of a gendered or historical context. I don't think I have the expertise to do the rewrite this page needs, but maybe I have enough expertise to create something better than the current Frankensteinian mess in this article.

Agreed. I hardly find any authors of much authority using the term 'post-feminist,' probably for some of the reasons mentioned. A more helpful alternative could be 'post-rationalist feminism' [as used by Peet (1998) in a textbook: 'Modern Geographical Thought']; I think it has a bit more clarity. (Stephen Cumberland, 24.4.07)

[edit] Pornography?

I'm not sure I understand exactly how pornography breaks the mother/whore dichotomy. I am under the impression that female pornstars are thought of by the vast majority as "whores", to use the term losely, though it is entirely possible that I've been living under a rock my entire life. This could use some more explaination, as it is a very confusing assertion. - Sara B.


[edit] Post-Feminist Sexual Politics

Shouldn't their be something in this article about post-feminist influences on changing attitudes to female sexuality? The old style feminists' (Dworkin etc) obsession with pornography and female underwear advertisements, and their view of woman as the eternal victim of male lust, looks, in retropect, somewhat stuffy and puritanical. Maybe Madonna (as much as Paglia) was an influence here? Colin4C 09:49, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Other curios of the feminist heritage which post-feminism has hopefully consigned to the lumber room of history are such strange ideas as 'phallocentric discourse'. By jettisoning such ideas maybe a progressive female politics is possible.

I think, also, that Foucault's philosophical work on human sexuality has made a lot of the old style fundamentalist feminism redundant. Colin4C 19:39, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] sexual tolerance in modern socities

124.105.105.14 05:41, 21 April 2007 (UTC)feminism...a step towards the equality of the sexes.. my question, how can the process of equalizing both of the sexes as what feminism is affect some socities which still percieves the dominance of the male and highly "blocks" steps to empower women like in the middle east and some parts of africa? how can sexual tolerance among these societies be achieved?or willit ever be achieved?

[edit] a useful reference

I don't have time to integrate its many definitions at the moment, but a useful survey of definitions of "postfeminism", with plenty of additional citations, is found in:

Linda Frost (1998). "The Decentered Subject of Feminism", in Michael F. Bernard-Donals & Richard R. Glejzer: Rhetoric in an Antifoundational World. Yale University Press. .

While there are a number of sub-variations, the two main ideas they identify as "postfeminist" are: 1) a backlash against feminism, which aims to defend what it sees as the good aspects of traditional femininity against what it sees as feminism's excesses; and 2) a postmodernist critique of feminism, which seeks to problematize its narratives in a variety of ways. The two don't share that much in common, despite using a common term. --Delirium 08:25, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Lingering problem

I just read this article and still don't know what the main tenets or thrusts of post-feminism actually are, nor to which characteristics or consequences of feminism it was reactionary. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Depaderico (talk • contribs) 05:53, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] page has been merged

[edit] merger of post-feminism

Cross posted from Talk:Feminism
Having reviewed the Post-feminism article and the section here, I think it would be appropriate to merge and redirect that article here until the section expands enough to justify having its own article--Cailil talk 15:46, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

If nobody has a problem with this then I propose the merge go ahead after 12:00 UTC Thursday December 27th 2007--Cailil talk 15:14, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
It sounds fine to me, Cailil -- thanks for more excellent work on feminism-related articles. --Lquilter (talk) 15:23, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
You might have discussed this at Talk:Post-feminism... —Ashley Y 22:03, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

The merge template only gives the option to use one talk page. If you feel strongly revert and discuss. Personally I think the section here is clearer and more comprehensive. Hence the reasons for the merge - but again if you feel strongly just revert here. These mergers are being performed in line with WP:BRD and in due to the fact that most of the pages merged here were full of OR or (in this case) little more than stubs--Cailil talk 22:37, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

Apologies that this was not cross posted earlier. If anyone feels that this merge should be undo please revert and discuss--Cailil talk 00:26, 11 March 2008 (UTC)