Talk:Pontiac

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Cleaned up entry regarding the 389 motor (it was garbled), and added John DeLorean as the person behind the GTO concept in 1964.

Contents

[edit] Is this article encyclopediatic?

I've read through this article on several occassions and feel that it relies too heavily on superlatives, POV/emotive words and cliche's. It doesn't read like an article so much as its phrases sound like PR copy. I feel that it needs a rewrite. Stude62 17:26, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

Good, now that the POV tag is on the article, here are my issues with the article as it stands today (January 28, 2005): 1) Sample phrases and jargon

  • "combination of stunning looks and incredible performance"
  • "One of his first ideas was to bring back the GTO in order to revive Pontiac's performance heritage in light of the Firebird's demise. But since Pontiac, or any other GM division didn't offer a suitable platform, Lutz decided to look elsewhere, and found what he was looking for in Australia." (If any other GM Division didn't offer a suitable platform, what does that make Holden, GM's Austrialian marque)?
  • Yes, actually, Holden is GM's Australian marque seeing as how it's the ONLY GM brand in Australia.
No, you miss the point. As the sentence was written If no other GM division had an acceptible platform, then that would include Holden as not having an acceptible platform because it is a GM division. The proper way to state this relationship would have been But since Pontiac, or any other North American division division didn't offer a suitable platform, then mention Holden. Alson, please sign your posts using four tildas, ~~~ , it helps us to know who you are. Stude62 18:10, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
  • "Solstice became one of hottest car America's throughout 2005 as Pontiac reported orders far beyond their ability to produce the car, and dealer mark-ups of thousands of dollars over sticker price, a rarity for GM in this time of deep incentives." (According to whom? Where's the attribution and based on what criteria?)
    • I had an interesting experience today - on the street in front of a local Pontiac dealer was a Solstice with mid level options - with the factory sticker at what about one would expect price-wise to be competitive (low mid $20K). However, an additional tag marked "Market Adjustment" added $5,995 to this price! Since I was out of my vehicle anyway, I walked across the street to see the new Mazda Miata, which appears to be a better vehicle, (this was also a middle range model but unlike the Solstice is equipped with low profile tires and six speed transmission), is available at an equivalent price and trim levels and without additional dealer markup and which is substantially improved over the 2nd generation it replaced. Sure, the Solstice "market adjustment" is probably soft, but I would not even bother talking to that dealer's salesperson and certainly am not entertaining a Solstice purchase, while the Miata sparked my latent new car lust. No wonder GM is in trouble - Leonard G. 05:36, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

2) I wrote the second paragrapah and am going in to remove the word "smashing", although it was, the superlative isn't needed.

The first paragraph of this article lowers the standard of the entire page: "featuring a sportier, high-performance driving experience for a reasonable price, and its advertisements appeal to younger customers."- What kind of neutrality is this?213.94.243.108 20:46, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] List of vehicles

I've commented out this list, as it's better handled by a category. - brenneman(t)(c) 12:00, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

This list contains numerous worldwide rebadges that cannot be placed in categories (the articles are are mere redirects), and they are missing from the List of Pontiac vehicles altogether. --DmitryKo 08:14, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Solstice

There are literally hundreds of articles about the introduction of the Solstice, and how consumers have complained mightily about Dealers gouging consumers due to the limited supply which was caused by the large demand which started on The Apprentice. Search on any of the above and find out for yourself. People have reported waiting for months for the car. Solsticeforum.com has many of these stories.

Also, it is not (yet) mentioned here that the Solstice has been so successful that it is now the top selling roadster in America despite the Mazda Miata's reign for 18 years (see recent USA Today, Mazda Pulls Switcheroo on Pontiac). That's not a superlative, it's fact. 198.208.251.21

[edit] Response by Stude62

Before I respond to the comment above, I would like to mention that the IP address 198.208.251.21 attributing the above post is registered to General Motors headquarters in downtown Detroit.

While I am assuming good faith, I think that the relationship between the user and General Motors, and General Motors to the Soltice (GM produces the Pontiac Solstice) needs to be disclosed. Also, it needs to be recorded that the post above made by IP 198.208.251.21 was made on 19:14, 4 February 2006 accounding to Wikipedia time stamps.

Regarding your comment about supply not being able to meet demand which can be stated without using jargon, it can be done very easily. For example your POV statement in this talk page (and POV is acceptable on talk page, but I need an example) reads:

"There are literally hundreds of articles about the introduction of the Solstice, and how consumers have complained mightily about Dealers gouging consumers due to the limited supply which was caused by the large demand which started on The Apprentice."

If I remove the italics that I placed in your statement (statements with are either POV, or aren’t documented by references) can be edited down to read: "Demand for the Solstice exceeded supply following its rollout on NBC’s The Apprentice." and "Consumers complained about dealers marking up the car's sticker price." Both sentences are NPOV, both are informative and aren't weighed down by jargon.

As for the article (USA Today) that you mention, use of that source is more then welcome, providing that you quote and attribute the source; you would need to provide the publication, date, page, author and the stated, not implied, comment relative matter at hand. Contributors need to come prepared to back up their writings, while editors edit what is written. It is the contributors job to do the research, not the other way around unless the editor suspects that material has been taken from one source and incorrectly used (ie without attribution).

Again, it isn’t my intent to rain on anyone’s parade, but the material needs to remain NPOV, and has to be verifible. Stude62 19:04, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Older Pontiacs

Article seems very thin on pre-World War II Pontiacs. Info needed. -- Infrogmation 23:17, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Expansion tag

This article says nothing about Pontiac in the past 20 years. I would think the more recent change to the product line would be worth mentioning. --Holderca1 13:24, 4 April 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Logo Name

This article shows the logo as the "arrow-head" logo, but on here it's referred to as the "dart". Should arrow-head be changed to dart?--jonrev 03:52, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Makes sense... maybe change it?--70.91.110.14 13:58, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] In the GM brand lineup, Pontiac is a mid-level brand

In the intro it says:

In the GM brand lineup, Pontiac is a mid-level brand

Someone should explain that because it doesn't mean anything to me. Otherwise it should just be deleted. What is an upper-level brand versus a lower-level brand? Daniel.Cardenas (talk) 19:43, 1 June 2008 (UTC)