Talk:Polyphenol

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Contents 1 toxic? 2 polymer? 3 Tannins 4 False implication that "nonheme iron" means "iron derived from plants"

[edit] toxic?

If the Wikipedia entry for Phenol shows it to be rather toxic, why are Polyphenols so beneficial?

Well, in terms of organic chemistry, just because a certain substance may be toxic to humans, it doesn't necessarily mean that other substances that maybe incorporate it as one of their components will likewise have a similar toxicity. To use benzene as an example, benzene on it's own is a powerful toxin, but when it is found as part of some other synthesized molecules, such as phenylalanine, a component of the sweetener aspartame, it is not inherently toxic. Sorry about the vagueness of my response, but I am not an organic chemist by training, and as a result, am not able to conclusively answer your question. =P wongabird 23:23, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

Phenol, also known as carbolic acid, is a chemical compound. This article is about compounds which contain phenol groups. Unfree (talk) 01:52, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Both comments are correct. The term "phenol" refers to a specific chemical compound (carbolic acid) which is toxic. However many non-lay people also use the term "phenols" interchangeably with "polyphenols", another term which is vague among chemists. Polyphenols generally refers to aromatic plant compounds and there are many, some which are beneficial, some which are toxic and others of unknown benefit.--Ian Yee (talk) 15:33, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] polymer?

Polyphenols are not polymers. Why is it listed as polymer-related, and how do you get rid of it? --137.132.3.12 19:30, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

As the "poly" in "polyphenols" suggests, polyphenols typically occur as polymers of multiple modified or unmodified phenol monomers, although chemical moieties other than phenol can also contribute to their polymeric nature. Yet not all phytochemicals referred to as polyphenols by scientists strictly qualify as "large" molecules, or macromolecules, as in the case of the polymers, proteins and DNA, though some do (see: tannins). Indeed, some phytochemicals referred to as polyphenols consist of a single phenolic group with only a few carbons as side-chain (e.g., cinnamic acid, caffeic acid) (see: Croft, KD. The Chemistry and Biological Effects of Flavonoids and Phenolic Acids. Ann NY Acad Sci 1998;854:435-42). In summary, some so-called polyphenols qualify as polymers, others as oligomers--"small" polymers--while others, as relatively simple molecules, hardly qualify even as oligomers. --TonySebas 00:41, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

I disagree, a phenol is an alcohol on an aromatic ring, the poly revers to more than one alcohol on the ring. Jasoninkid 02:54, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

I suspect you're confusing "alcohol" with "hydroxyl group," Jasoninkid. Attaching a hydroxyl group (-OH) to a carbon atom in benzene changes the ring into phenol, which is by definition an alcohol (the "-ol" suffix gives it away). So phenol groups aren't on rings, they are themselves rings. Unfree (talk) 02:11, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

I agree with TonySebas. "Polyphenols" refers to aromatic plant compounds other than phenol. "Polymers" are repeating units (monomers) or types of chemical units. Many compounds referred to as polyphenols are not polymers because they don't repeat as in DNA polymers or cellulose. --Ian Yee (talk) 16:06, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Tannins

Aren't condensed tannins phenylpropanoids? Why are they listed as separate group in the introduction? --Kupirijo 04:17, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

The history of the terminolgy has led to a deeply unsatisfying result. Condensed tannins are derived from phenlypropanoids (flavonoids, in this case) and so the venn diagram of what is a tannin and what is a phenylpropanoid overlaps. I have not come up with a good way to write this. MatthewEHarbowy 18:24, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Tannins can bind with and precipitate protein (which allows for tanning leather) and the others don't. Jasoninkid 23:08, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] False implication that "nonheme iron" means "iron derived from plants"

"Polyphenols bind with nonheme iron (e.g. from plant sources) in vitro in model systems. [4] This may decrease its absorption by the body."

This statement needs revision. Besides the false implication, "model systems" is confusing; the source refers to "model food systems." Unfree (talk) 01:40, 17 February 2008 (UTC)