Talk:Polish operation of the NKVD
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[edit] Title
This article could use a new title. The current one suggests Polish involvement in the NKVD. Appleseed (Talk) 21:09, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
[edit] New name please
I strongly disagree with the name. The current name is beaurocratic euphemism to cover mass persecutions of Poles.
I think Extermination of Poles by NKVD is much better (100 000 guys killed) Cautious 09:21, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
- According to the article the name seems to be one from an 3rd party source, better to use that name than to make one up. --Philip Baird Shearer 11:26, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
- Not a good point. If I steal your watch and name this "Return of the appliance" you would cease name it "theft"? Cautious 21:09, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
- There is a difference how things are called in newspapers and in scholar articles. You would not call a reseacrher from Memorial Society a Stalin sympathiser, would you? I strongly suggest you to read his book. His dispassionate tale is much more impressive than emotional epitets. And much more convincing, too. `'Míkka 01:05, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
- Not a good point. If I steal your watch and name this "Return of the appliance" you would cease name it "theft"? Cautious 21:09, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
Polish operation of NKVD seems to be used by English historiography, see [1].-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 23:28, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
- It is historian slang then. OK New proposal What is about NKVD liquidation operation against Poles —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cautious (talk • contribs) 10:29, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Mass murder
Cautious raised an important issue about some of the wording in the article Genocides in history article when writing on the article's talk page:
- I don't understand why somebody claims following "In legal terms, the word "genocide" may not be appropriate, because there was no proven intent to destroy a specific national, ethnic, racial or religious group."
- The good example is Soviet extermination of Poles 1937-1938. We have documented the whole operation directed for the ethnic group selected due to nationality. We have documented number of victims.
What else is needed to remove this false statement?? Cautious 09:43, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
For something to be a genocide as defined under international law it is necessary to prove that there was intent to destroy specific types of groups. These groups,thanks to USSR diplomatic efforts, do not include social of class groups. There is also another important qualification "whole or in part". The intent is difficult to prove because there is not usually a clear paper trail of evidence. As it is unusual for it to be whole, the "in part" has to be defined and "in part" has a specific meaning under international law see Genocide#In part.
Claiming that any event is a genocide, unless it has been proven to be so in a court of law is complicated because of the complexity of the definition under international law and it is also highly controversial. So if Wikipedia is to make such a claim, it should only do so by quoting third party reliable sources which explicitly state that it was a genocide, otherwise it is WP:OR and against Wikipedia policy. If a third party is used then they may not use the international legal definition, but one of the other definitions as is done in the Australian genocide debate. Further because in this case it is controversial a balanced WP:POV should be given. --Philip Baird Shearer 11:26, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
[edit] 111.000 Poles
According to discussion on forum.axis, not all from 111.000 were Poles. E.g. In 1937 there were 20.000 shot Poles and around 10.000 shot Russians, Latvians, Jews, Germans within "Polish operation", accused for cooperation, friendship, relations with Poles. Szopen (talk) 10:56, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
