Talk:Plant stem

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  • Get ducks in a row (funny language this English): First describe the most primitive stems, and after the most derived. Dicots-Monocots-Gymosperms-Ferns is nonsensical.

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[edit] Shoot (merging)

Here's one vote for this article (Shoot) should be deleted and added to either "stem" or "meristem" or epicotyl or something, if nobody has anything useful to add that doesn't belong there. 128.101.70.96 16:37, 14 October 2005 (UTC)Lotusduck

Good idea. — Pekinensis 17:25, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
I vote that you do it. neutral Meggar 03:42, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
As a botanist, I disagree. The shoot comprises both the stems and leaves, and is an organ system in plants. Stems and leaves are the individual organs that make up the shoot system. Thus, the terms stem and shoot mean very different things. I can think of many useful things that could (and should) be added to this article. Most important among these is a discussion of the kinds of basic growth forms seen in plant shoot systems, that is, the way in which the organs of the shoot system are arranged with respect to one another. Some plants produce a single, unbranched stem with leaves attached only at the base of the stem (e.g. cabbage or onion). Other plants have a shoot system where the stem branches repeatedly, with leaves attached practically all over. I can think of no better header under which to include this information. The real problem (as I see it) is that the current article misdefines the term shoot. -- EncycloPetey 08:17, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
As another botanist, I also disagree, for the same reason (it's equivalent to merging circulatory system with heart). I do agree that node and internode could be merged, though.--Curtis Clark 20:01, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
As plant physiologist, I disagree as well.. The same reasons, .. it would be terribly misleading for these, who would be clicking on the link of shoot, when getting actually the stem article. Reo On 16:56, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
I vote against. Ultiam 09:01, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

I disagree with merging, but not as a matter of principle. Priority should be in illustrating this. At the moment it is a sea of words, and adding yet more words is not a good idea. Pictures first, then see if there is a point in merging. Brya 18:11, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

The node is not a synonym for shoot. What most people regard as a "shoot" is in botanical terms, the nodes + the internodes. In other words, a node is just a component of a shoot. --User:zeamays.

Nodes + internodes = stem. Stem + leaves = shoot. --Curtis Clark 17:43, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
For the broadest possible definitions of "stem" and "leaves", yes. However, you would have to include flowers, cones, fruits, trichomes, buds, etc. to get a full definition of the shoot system in vascular plants. These structures are not adequately subsumed by either the term "stem" or "leaf" as most people would use them. --EncycloPetey 06:30, 22 February 2006 (UTC)
Actually, the terminology for organography in seed plants has been pretty well established since the 19th Century. Although botanists disagree about the origins of the parts of a flower, few will disagree that flowers are combinations of modified stems and modified leaves. The organography of cones is well-known: lycophyte cones consist of leaves (sporophylls) connected to a central stem axis, sphenophyte cones consist of stems (sporangiophores) attached to an axis, etc. Fruits are developed from carpels (still disagreement on the extent to which these are stems or leaves) and sometimes associated parts. Buds are embryonic shoots. Trichomes are epidermal structures which can form on stems, leaves, or roots. The only parts that are difficult or impossible to see as stem, leaf, or root are ovules. But at any rate, most botany texts refer to stem, leaf, and root as the vegetative organs of a plant, and explicitly exclude reproductive structures.--Curtis Clark 15:27, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

As a Professor of Botany, I have to agree with you. It would be a poor choice to merge them.


Actually, the only relevant issue here, is the poor quality of both the articles. There was no valid argument presented here, why should be that ones merged together, as regard of their entry deffinition. But the quality of such basic entries is indeed critical. Instead of merging the attention of contributors would be benefitial. (As I do work on Czech Wikipedia I rarely make big contribution here, would'nt like anyone of you to try it?). Wheter it will be expanded or not I still can not agree with any proposed merging here. Reo ON | +++ 16:16, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

Oppose because additional information may be added to the separate articles, and eac article can be improved on independent of each other. Mering just seems to make excessively long articles that may have too much information for one page or search. SiriusAlphaCMa 10:05, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Merge tags out

But let the above suggested improvements to both articles continue. Meggar 03:27, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

I'd prefer not. I just took bio101-103, and "Axillary buds" are a fairly important concept to plant anatomy. -Randall

[edit] Revision

I made a major revision including changing the definition of stem from "A stem is the above ground axis of a vascular plant." Many kinds of stems are below ground, and some roots are aerial. Some things were cut that didn't seem to fit, such as the discussion about monocot leaves. The part about seedling hypocotyls and epicotyls was inaccurate and didn't seem that key to the article so was left out. For example, the statement that "The young stem develops in the germinating seedling from embryonic tissue known as the hypocotyl." is incorrect. Very little of the stem develops from the hypocotyl. In many seedlings, the hypocotyl doesn't even elongate. It is also incorrect that "The cotyledons are not pushed above ground in monocots as they are in dicots." Not all dicots have epigeal germination and some monocots do. Plantguy 00:54, 30 July 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Node Node Node

Node(botany) redirects to here. But this article doesn't define what "node" means in botany! Please, somebody, put it into the article. I-baLL 16:57, 21 September 2006 (UTC)