Talk:Place names in Irish

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[edit] 2004 post

A few quick questions:

Africa is usually, per de Bhaldraithe, etc, translated as "an Afraic." But older books use "an Aifric", and that's much more like how I would pronounce the continents name. Any opinions, esp academics, native speakers, or owners of superold books.

Oileán Mhanann-Mhanainn. A cursory search shows about equal use, a bit towards Mhanainn, but some of that is Scottish Gaelic. On its own, I think "Manann", agus the language is "Gaeilge Mhanainn" or "Manannais". Any (similar) takers on this? Meabhar 17:14, 23 Dec 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Translations

Hi; I would question the accuracy of many of these place names. Anyone else have any qualms?Fergananim 01:38, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

A good place for official translations of Irish placenames is [1]. Djegan 19:19, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

I would also challenge some of the translations of county names. Some of them seem a little creative. I think Galway derives from the word 'gall' (= foreigner) and not from some supposed female personal name. Exactly who those foreigners might be poses an intriguing question.Grist 13:07, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

The translations for Provinces of Canada look ify a search for Ontaeireo only gives four hits, also the web site http://www.acmhainn.ie/oideas/oideas0306.htm which Foras na Gaeilge runs gave Ontario for Ontario. Fabhcún

I agree. I can't confirm most of the Irish names for Canadian provinces/territories listed here, except Talamh an Éisc for Newfoundland and Alba(in) Nua for Nova Scotia. Éire Nua for New Brunswick seems especially suspicious; this Wikipedia page is the only thing I can find on Google where the two terms are equated. I'm removing everything except Talamh an Éisc and Albain Nua and taking off the {{disputed}} template. Angr/talk 15:36, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Thanks Angr any idea on what should be done over on ga: Fabhcún 16:07, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

I'd say articles on Canadian provinces at ga: should be written under their English (or in the case of Nunavut, Inuktitut) names until authoritative sources for a distinct Irish name can be found. Obviously Newfoundland should be at ga:Talamh an Éisc, and Nova Scotia should be at ga:Alba Nua or ga:Albain Nua (with a redirect from the other one), but I'd say the other names shouldn't be translated unless we can find a reliable source to show those names are actually used as Gaeilge. Angr/talk 16:26, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

On a separate issue, could someone confirm if my translation of Australasia is correct. The rare time that I've had to use the term in Irish, I've just said the Continent of AustraliaAfn 10:54, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Changed names

Why are faulty forms of names presented here as the Irish names of towns, when they are not? Why does this page link to the Placenames Orders which lay out the official Irish names of places and yet ignore them, listing a number of incorrect Irish forms? Is it because the Irish names "seem too short"? I suggest giving a list of the official Irish names for the places (as laid down in the Placenames Orders) and then, perhaps in brackets, tell people what the over-long, over-gaelicized version once in use was. Gearb 21:25, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

The article mentions places having their names changed: "...changed from the Irish form used since independence, e.g. Bray went from Brí Chualann to Bré" - what's the story behind this? My guess is that the gaelicisation of placenames after independence had a political tinge to it, like much of the gaelic revival over the last century and a bit; for example County Laois was previously Queen's County, and its article says "The county was renamed in the early 1920s, following a competition.". Does anybody know where this new name came from, and are there many other irish placenames which are similarly 'artificial'? --VinceBowdren 23:19, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

The way that it is written is a bit confusing. It really does not have anything to do with English name version, for the most part (about 90% i would guess) the English names of places in Ireland are anglesized versions of the Irish name, the problem is that that it would not have been uncommon for a town to have two or three versions of it's Irish name, usually local variations, or "incorrect versions". Basically the placename orders listed, and the one brought into to effect last year i think, are working to create a set of standardised placenames in the Irish language, so while the English name of the towns haven't, for the most part, changed, the Irish names have changed due to these orders. The Department of Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs has some info on their website, as well as come of the copies of the some of the completed orders, here. I hope this explains this some, i am guessing some one could explain it better then me. As for your example, Queens County came about during English rule, so it never had a Irish equivalent, why it was named such i don't know really, i am guessing their is a historical context for it. County Offaly was also known as Kings County, named in a similar way that Queens County was named, but their is nothing in the article about that name change either. --Boothy443 | trácht ar 06:52, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

I would say that the process of simplyfying the Irish language had large influence on spelling variation. Many towns, cities, counties have at least two variations of their name. The older names (pre 1950s), prior to the official written standards, tend to be longer names and less faithful to the actual pronunciation; newer spellings are simplier. As pointed out above in recent years their are renewed activities been carried out to standardise spellings and place them on a legal basis with the English names. This is just about as much of a explaination I can offer. Djegan 19:30, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

I added the information about the 1973 Place Names Commission and it likely makes sense to refer to the following web pages [2] [3] as there was no official list published until that time except for the Ainmneacha Gaeilge na mBailte Poist (1969) of which I have a copy but it would be too long to publish on Wikipedia even though it might be considered fair use. VinceBowdren asked about the story behind the name changes and the above mentioned web page gives some more, though scant, detail. Basically there was no concerted effort to officially publish a list of town names until 1973 when new names were given to some towns while others remained as they had been since adopted after independence. Other town names were spelled differently that heretofore as occasionally reflected in the difference between the town postmark as used on mail (sometimes for many years after 1973) and the Irish Place Names list.

I understand there was controversy about some of the names published by the Language Commission by Irish scholars who felt some new names did not reflect a true original translation or meaning of the town name but I suppose that is another story. Some new names just seem too simple, Bré being one example. ww2censor 16:06, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

I removed Co. Clare from the list of counties not named for a town - the town of Clare is now known as Clarecastle. I would suggest that Co. Kerry also should be removed from that list, in view of the name in Gaelic of Castleisland - Oileann Chiarrai. Gabhala 20:05, 23 February 2007 (UTC)