Talk:Pirooz II

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"A small band of Arabs under determined and brilliant leadership, with a revolutionary social message of materialistic and spiritual nature, defeated several Persian armies and conquered the Sassanian Empire. The king was killed, but his family with his nobles and his court reached China through Transoxiana, where for some decades they maintained a court in exile and tried unsuccessfully to make a comeback. (This event can be traced through the peculiar Chinese and Japanese face masks, showing the enormous Persian noses, and other Sassanian arts and artifacts in the Japanese Imperial Repository, the Shosoin, in Nara). The court artisans accompanied the Sassanian princes to the Chinese capital, Chang-An and Chinese pottery and textile design was profoundly influenced by Sassanian motifs, as was the derivative Japanese art." [1]

Contents

[edit] Deletion of cited content by user Ravichandar84

Hi Ravichandran
Your deletion of verifiable content regarding Piruz (from Ferishta0 without discussion is unjustified . Request please discuss here before deletion . As a matter of fact no other content on this page provides the proper references other than the one you have chosen to delete . The article is about Piruz and the cited content you have removed is also regarding Piruz taken from Firdausi .
Intothefire (talk) 06:24, 4 February 2008 (UTC) Cheers

He was correct in deleting the information. See my comments in the thread below. --Ghostexorcist (talk) 06:30, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
Well the content you've put up here is about Piruz, son of Yazdgerd II. Well, I could've moved the content to Piruz but didnt have time. I request you to do the same. I've already explained my reason in the 'Edit summary'. -Ravichandar 10:05, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Piruz did not go to China according to Firdausi

Firdusi records the death of Piruz in the Shah Namah , there is no mention of his going to China .Here is the complete section taken from the http://persian.packhum.org .

§ 4 How Pírúz fought with Khúshnawáz and was slain
This done, he called on God and marched his powers
From Samarkand. On that side Sháh Pírúz,
The frantic, led his troops on like a blast;
On this side Khúshnawáz with fearful heart
Prayed privily before the holy Judge.
The drums and trumpets sounded in both hosts,
The air was ebon with the armies' dust,
And from them both such showers of arrows rained
That blood ran down like water in a stream.
Then, like a dust-cloud, Sháh Pírúz advanced
With mace and Rúman helm, and as he drew
Anear to Khúshnawáz,*
the Turkmans' chief
Retreated, turned his rein, and showed his back.
The foeman followed fiercely. Sháh Pírúz
Spurred forward with few followers and fell
With others—chiefs and Lions of the day
Of battle—in the fosse, such as Hurmuz
His brother, glorious Kubád and others—
Great men and princes of the royal race—
Till seven had fallen headlong, men of name
With golden casques. Then Khúshnawáz returned
Rejoicing to the fosse and lifted thence
The living while the throne bewailed their fortune.
Now Sháh Pírúz, that chief of chiefs endowed
With Grace and state, had broken head and back,
While of the princes, save Kubád, none lived:
Thus host and empire went adown the wind.
Then Khúshnawáz advanced with heart content,
And head exalted with his warrior-host,
And gave to spoil the baggage and the foe,
For right and left were indistinguishable.
They made some prisoners and what numbers more
Were stretched by arrows on the sombre soil!
C. 1595
'Tis not for world-lords to be covetous,
For hearts that covet are the dark dust's mate;
The never-resting sky ordaineth thus
Alike for subjects and for king's estate,
And wringeth its own fosterling, be he
A fool or wisdom's pillar. None can stay
Upon this earth of ours eternally.
Make right thy provand: naught is left to say.
When Khúshnawáz had crossed the fosse his troops
Lacked not for wealth. They bound Kubád with
fetters
Of iron, heedless of his throne and race.
When tidings reached the people of Írán
About the fosse and how Pírúz had fought,
A wail of anguish went up from the land
For all those princes—men of high degree—
And when the tidings had been certified
Balásh descended from his golden seat,
Plucked out his royal locks and strewed sad dust
Upon the throne. Within Írán the host,
The cities and the women, men, and children,
All wailed, all rent the hair and tore the face
For grief, talked of the Sháh and yearned for him;
All sat in dole and woe while great and small
Took thought what course to choose and whether they
Should quit Írán and see where fell the fray?

Cheers
~ Intothefire (talk) 06:24, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

This material is about Peroz I, son of Yazdgird II, not Pirooz, the son of Yazdgird III. Please see this section of his article that describes his death at the hands of Khushnawz. Any further addition of the above material to the 'proper' Pirooz's article will be deleted. --Ghostexorcist (talk) 06:20, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
Personally, I feel that Peroz I could be moved to Peroz and Pirooz to Pirooz (pretender) since there was only one Sassanian king by name Peroz who actually reigned. -Ravichandar 10:48, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
There is an extensive description of the reign of Firuz, the Sassanian king in 'The Seven Great Monarchies of the Ancient Near East' by George Rawlinson. He was defeated in the first battle with Khushnawaz and ordered to prostrate before him. The Huns DO NOT belong to the 7th century AD. The Hun invasions occured in Europe, Persia and India in the 5th century AD. The Huns were one of the barba4rian tribes which put an end to the Roman Empire and the Gupta Empire. -Ravichandar 10:38, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Next -Ghostexorcist deletes content from the discussion page .

This discussion is not over . My friend your deletions of content from the article and the talk page are unmerited and tone is audacious .
Removing content from discussion page is atrocious specially since the content removed is not personal in nature , I simply stated the fact that the only cited and verifiable content on this article has been removed by you . Please do not delete discussion its awfully discourteous .
 I have restored all the content of the discussion you have deleted please do not delete …discuss .
The nature of your deletion has required my posting not at the end but here .
Cheers
Intothefire (talk) 15:01, 9 February 2008 (UTC) Restored content starts here

There is an extensive description of the reign of Firuz, the Sassanian king in 'The Seven Great Monarchies of the Ancient Near East' by George Rawlinson. He was defeated in the first battle with Khushnawaz and ordered to prostrate before him. The Huns DO NOT belong to the 7th century AD. The Hun invasions occured in Europe, Persia and India in the 5th century AD. The Huns were one of the barba4rian tribes which put an end to the Roman Empire and the Gupta Empire. -Ravichandar 10:38, 8 February 2008 (UTC)


Intothefire, I advise you not deviate from the subject of the topic being discussed. This last reply of yours serves no purpose at all. -Ravichandar 15:25, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
And stop creating a hullabaloo over those deletions here. You know for yourself why your edits were reverted. The fault is in your side.-Ravichandar 15:30, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
I think I have made my point clear. The material has nothing to do with this page. That is why it was deleted. And please follow proper talk page guidelines. --Ghostexorcist (talk) 19:16, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Cited content deleted by users Ravichandar andGhostexorcist

Not wanting to reach an edit war with these two users who have deleted the only verifiable content on this article I am recording the deletions here .

About Piruz and his son Kubad from Ferdowsi s Shah Namah.== Here is a brief summary from the Shahnama that records the fate of Piruz and his son Kubad .The Shah Namah of Fardusi translated from the original Persian by Alaxander Rogers

The Shah-Namah records-Yazdagird is succeeded by his younger son Hormuz.
Piruz was the elder brother of Hormuz .
Piruz deposes Hormuz and his reign lasts 11 years
Khushnawaz and Piruz battle , The army is led by Hormuz and followed by Kubad , the son of Piruz .
Piruz falls into a trench and dies.
Kubad is taken prisoner
Khushnawaz is defeated by Sufrai
Crown given to and the reign of Kubad lasts 43 years
Sufrai is his Vazir till at the age of 23 Sufrai asks leave to return to Shiraz
Sufrai is put to death
People rebel at this and Kubad is himself put in chains . Jamasap the youngest brother of the king is put on the throne .
Kubad is put in chains and handed over to the son of Sufrai (Razmehr) who releases him
Kubad escapes with Razmehr and marries the daughter of a rich citizen of Ahvaz
With the help of the king of Heital he raises an army of 30,000.
When he returns finds that a son has been born to him who he names Kasra .
He regains his kingdom and the management of affairs is handed over to Razmihr .

According to the Shanamah Piruz or his son Kubad did not go to China and become generals in the Chinese court , they remained in Iran and ruled Iran .[1]

However there seems to be another account to the events relating to Pirooz .

Well, User:Into the Fire, I advice you to check stuff for its verifiability before putting them here. A lamentation of this sort is unnecessary. You are not getting anywhere by highlighting our names and starting such topics. I dont think it is going to bring you any significant gain. Regards -Ravichandar 19:41, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] External links Deleted on this article by Ravichandar andGhostexorcist

Firstly, the Piruz spoken of in the Shahnameh isnt the Piruz of this article. Secondly, the Shahnameh is a semi-mythical epic and is partly legendary in character. You can neither regard it as a historical account or quote it as na source for a historical event or personality.Regards -Ravichandar 19:47, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] References

  1. ^ The Shah Namah of Fardusi -translated from the original Persian by Alaxander Rogers and Published by LPP India Page 436 to page 440