Talk:Pinoy Idol

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Contents

[edit] Mega Manila, Metro Manila and Manila

Ok, we should discuss this instead of reverting each other.

I'd suggest we use the following format for the Manila auditions:

I believe the use of "Mega Manila" as a descriptor is wrong since Mega Manila isn't really a place but more of a statistical area. --Howard the Duck Pasay)08:23, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

IMO GMA Network made it wrong BIG TIME when they advertised Mega Manila as part of its audition locations, when that would have included Batangas City, which is also one of its audition venues. Starczamora (talk) 09:23, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
Actually AGB-Nielsen omits Batangas as part of "Mega Manila" but the Philippine Information Agency considers it a part of "Mega Manila". --Howard the Duck 09:26, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
I think we should stick to the terms used in the commercial and use "Mega Manila" and also state that Pasay is a Manila suburb.23prootie (talk) 07:57, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
But "Mega Manila" isn't actually a place. I've yet to see a person tell me, "I live at Mega Manila." The audition commercial was for auditioners, not for encyclopedia readers, so we ought to use the correct terms for things such as this. --Howard the Duck 08:22, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
A good way to solve this is to list the audition venues so we can add the exact address. --Howard the Duck 08:00, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
Update: GMA Network released the latest audition plugs and has now edited "Mega Manila" as "Metro Manila". Starczamora (talk) 13:13, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
I think the network prefers to use "Metro Manila" than "Pasay". Anyway Metro Manila should be used since the auditions does not concern Pasay only but the whole metropolis. Also, people outside the metropolis, like the people in the provinces and other countries don't usually distinguish cities within Metro Manila.23prootie (talk) 09:16, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
Nor are Clark auditions are for people at Clark Air Base per se (in fact it seems there is little residential area within the air base itself, or so it seemed when I went there) so we won't use "Clark" when referring to auditions held there (instead we use Angeles). That's why I'd rather have the building + address (e.g., Cultural Center of the Philippines, Pasay, Metro Manila* (*can be excluded)) so Wikipedia can be accurate. --Howard the Duck 11:34, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
The audition cities are about WHERE the auditions will be held (SM Mall of Asia is in Pasay City), not WHO are expected to audition. Starczamora (talk) 13:25, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
Not to mention some people that auditioned on a place aren't really from the place where they auditioned. --Howard the Duck 13:37, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
I have a better compromise which is applicable to the whole chart.23prootie (talk) 07:22, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
Regions aren't written in address, except for "Metro Manila." I'll be reverting it. Before doing revisions, make sure there's consensus first. --Howard the Duck 07:31, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
The case of Metro Manila should make it enough to add regions, and since provinces are added to some but not in others, it's more practical and inclusive to use regions to avoid mix-ups.-23prootie (talk) 07:47, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
Howard, why are you such a Pasay nationalist?-23prootie (talk) 07:48, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
I suggest you read cities of the Philippines (see also {{Philippine cities}} and the case of highly urbanized (HUC) and independent component (ICC) cities; all cities in the Metro and some other cities are HUCs and ICCs -- in this case they don't belong to a province and therefore, the province name should not be part of the address. All other cities and municipalities should append the province name after the city/municipality name. In fact appending "Metro Manila" to an address is now only applicable to Pateros, Metro Manila since it's the only municipality left.
Therefore, the only instance where the region should be a part of an address is on Pateros. --Howard the Duck 07:53, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
But in common practice Metro Manila is still added regardless if it is a city or a municipality (e.x. Pasig City, M.M.).-23prootie (talk) 08:10, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
Not really. You'd only append "Metro Manila" or "M.M." if you'd also append "Philippines". And that'll apply the policy consistently of not appending the next highest LGU (in fact Metro Manila is not even an LGU). See WP:MOSPHIL#Cities. --Howard the Duck 08:08, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

23prootie (talk) 08:10, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

In common speech, Pasay is in Manila. I mean, I've never heard anyone say they're Makateño, Pasigeño, or Pasayeño because they all say they're Manileño. And as far as global perspective is concerned, people in rural areas understand Manila as Metro Manila. And most people outside the country don't distinguish individual cities in the metropolis.-23prootie (talk) 08:10, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
Fortunately, Wikipedia is not common speech. Wikipedia has to be correct. That's why we'd use Pasay, or Mandaluyong (if it was held at Megamall) or Quezon City (if it was held at North EDSA). Manila still is not Metro Manila. If they abolish the different LGUs and appoint one mayor and council for all of Metro Manila then perhaps we can do what you want. And you grossly underestimate the "never heard anyone" thing. Ever been to beauty pageants? Contestants blurt out "I'm ______ of Pasig City!" not "I'm ___________ of Metro Manila!" or even "I'm _________ of Marikina, Metro Manila!" If beauty pageant contestants can be correct, why can't Wikipedia? --Howard the Duck 08:17, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
You have to consider that those pageants were held within Metro Manila so the are aware of the different cities/municipalities inside the metro. Those, however, who live outside the metropolis may or may not be aware of this.-23prootie (talk) 08:45, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
But common practice should also be considered. Anyway. The chart remains correct even if my edit is added, it's just more inclusive and more descriptive. Don't you find it redundant and messy using Batangas City, Batangas in the same space?-23prootie (talk) 08:23, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
Read (for the 2nd time) WP:MOSPHIL and cities of the Philippines: Batangas City is a component city of Batangas, ergo "Batangas City, Batangas" is perfectly correct. "Pasay City, Metro Manila", despite being "common practice" is incorrect, same for "San Fernando, Pampanga" while other cities are either HUCs or ICCs so they're left by themselves. And about common practice, the region name is almost always never used when writing address, as I've explained above, which you refuse to accept. --Howard the Duck 08:28, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
While using Batangas City, Batangas and San Fernando, Pampanga individually may work out, in the chart they don't and they just look out of place compared to the other cities. Anyway, the regions are included because they best describe the origins of the possible qualifiers. Besides, my edit is still valid desapite being incorrect in your perspective.-23prootie (talk) 08:45, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
English Wikipedia is a GLOBAL WIKIPEDIA, not a PHILIPPINE-CENTRIC WIKIPEDIA. By the way, it doesn't look out of place. It seems you merely want to make it fanboy-purtee. Starczamora (talk) 08:46, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
That's exactly why Metro Manila should be used. People outside the country think Pasay is in Manila.-23prootie (talk) 08:48, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
Why do we have to force in Manila into the article if the auditions do not even being held in that city? Also, in the case of Philippine Idol, some auditioneers from Manila even came to Cebu, like Gian Magdangal. Starczamora (talk) 08:50, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
Which is why Metro Manila should be used since some Manileños might think there is no auditions for Metro Manila.23prootie (talk) 08:53, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
This is an encyclopedia article, not a guide to auditioneers. Starczamora (talk) 08:56, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
It is still an encyclopedia article if Metro Manila is included since it is the region where Pasay is located so technically auditions are also held there. and how could it not be a guide, it's an encyclopedia, hello!23prootie (talk) 08:58, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
Quoting you: 'Which is why Metro Manila should be used since some Manileños might think there is no auditions for Metro Manila. Starczamora (talk) 09:04, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
I meant Manila as Metro Manila. Trust me, I'm not the only person who means it that way.-23prootie (talk) 09:06, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
Encyclopedias are different from guides. Encyclopedia aims for FACTS, not TIPS. If Wikipedia is a guide, there would have been an overflow of unnecessary information such as song lyrics (which is not allowed in Wiki). Starczamora (talk) 09:04, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
Wikipedia is NOT a guidebook Starczamora (talk) 09:08, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
But it still does not stop it from acting like a guide. And I think your misleading me. If we're debating about the validity of using regions in this article then they definitely should be used to avoid inconsistencies since all cities in this country are part of a region.-23prootie (talk) 09:12, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
Using Pampanga ang Batagas with their respective component cities is messy and inconsistent with the other cities so i suggest using regions.23prootie (talk) 09:15, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
Again, it is an official rule that Wikipedia is NOT a guidebook. If we find an article that acts like a guide, we have to correct it. Also, like Howard the Duck said, we have to differentiate between Batangas as a PROVINCE and Batangas as a CITY. If it looks messy to you, then it's your opinion. Starczamora (talk) 09:20, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
I've seen your user page and since you and I are both Filipinos, we can't be accurately sure that our views in this article are representative to global persepective so I suggest you should consider which is more understandable to foreigners, and in my view most people around the world, with the inclusion of Overseas Filipinos, believe that Pasay is just a part of Metro Manila.23prootie (talk) 09:21, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
Here we go again. It looks like you aim to force in anything Manila into the article, but unless Pinoy Idol auditions are to be held in...say SM Manila, then we will have to put Manila there. However, as stated countless times, putting Metro Manila into the table is unnecessary. Starczamora (talk) 09:26, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
But what if it improves the article? It looks neater if regions are included.23prootie (talk) 09:29, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
Again, we do not aim to make it prettier, but factual. And please do not edit the table unless we reach a consensus. Starczamora (talk) 09:32, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
Your running around hedges, my edit remains factual and is prettier.

Please compare.

Your edit:

City Venue Date No. of Qualifiers
Cagayan de Oro SM Cagayan de Oro January 17, 2008
Batangas City, Batangas SM City Batangas January 24, 2008
Iloilo City SM City Iloilo January 31, 2008
Cebu City SM City Cebu February 7, 2008
Davao City SM City Davao February 14, 2008
Pasay SM Mall of Asia February 21, 2008
San Fernando, Pampanga SM City Pampanga March 13, 2008
Dagupan CSI The City Mall March 16, 2008
Naga SM City Naga March 27, 2008

My edit:

City Venue Date No. of Qualifiers
Cagayan de Oro Northern Mindanao SM Cagayan de Oro January 17, 2008
Batangas City CALABARZON SM City Batangas January 24, 2008
Iloilo City Western Visayas SM City Iloilo January 31, 2008
Cebu City Central Visayas SM City Cebu February 7, 2008
Davao City Davao region SM City Davao February 14, 2008
Pasay Metro Manila SM Mall of Asia February 21, 2008
San Fernando Central Luzon SM City Pampanga March 13, 2008
Dagupan Ilocos region CSI The City Mall March 16, 2008
Naga Bicol region SM City Naga March 27, 2008

23prootie (talk) 09:37, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Is including regions helpful to the reader? No. We don't say, "Boston, Massachusetts, New England," don't we? Same here, we can omit regions, since regions are not, or should I say, need not be, included in the address. Also, the addition of regions will deviate the purpose of this section, to show the number of "gold passers."
Also, 23prootie is in violation of 3RR already and I'll be reporting it shortly. --Howard the Duck 09:56, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Compromise

Lets emulate what American Idol (season 7) has done, instead of what we have now.

AI7 has:

  • San Diego, California: Qualcomm Stadium - July 30

PI1 will have:

  • Pasay: SM Mall of Asia - February 21
    • Highly urbanized city
  • Batangas City, Batangas: SM City Batangas - January 24
    • Component city

I repeat, it is of utmost importance to read WP:MOSPHIL and Cities of the Philippines. WP:MOSPHIL is a Wikipedia guideline and trumps any common use or whatever it is called. --Howard the Duck 10:16, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Why do we have to emphasize Highly urbanized city or component city? I don't get it. We could, however, do what we did on Philippine Idol, which is:
The HUC/ICC label will determine if the province name should be appended. --Howard the Duck 13:43, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
P.S.: I'm willing to drop the province name in Batangas City if it's that redundant. --Howard the Duck 16:57, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

I personally think that "Pasay, Metro Manila" is better. Not many people know the individual cities and municipality that comprise Metro Manila (heck, even people from Metro Manila don't know that Las Piñas, where I live, is part of NCR). So appending "Metro Manila" (not "Manila") to "Pasay" would serve to inform that there's an audition in the vicinity of Manila. --seav (talk) 03:09, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Fine, I'll agree on that. I just cringe to see those regional names (see the tables above) and the fact 23prootie can't wait for a couple of minutes for replies. --Howard the Duck 03:28, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Season 1 issue

I was putting the word Season 1 in Pinoy Idol, but it seems Howard the Duck and Nanami Kamimura is not agreeing on it. I tried to put it because many are confused whether it is the second season for Philippine Idol or not. That's why I put the word Season 1. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Celester Mejia (talk • contribs) 10:18, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

That is because the editors are not yet sure if there will be a second season. This also happened in Philippine Idol. Starczamora (talk) 23:11, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
I think, whether there will be a second season or not, the word Season 1 shall be included because we're giving information so the data must be complete. Celester Mejia 2:35, 10 February 1008 (UTC)
Not including Season 1 still makes the article complete. After all, like what they have stated in the summary, there is not YET a Season 2. Look here. Starczamora (talk) 02:44, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
But there's the season 1 ongoing already. Celester Mejia 02:55, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
True, but is there another season to differentiate from Season 1? The article itself denotes the show's first season. Refer to similar first-season shows like Make Me a Supermodel and The Contender Asia. Starczamora (talk) 06:12, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
We'd only split a "Season 1" when a "Season 2" is announced, actually not even announced, if there are auditions already. Since Season 1 and Pinoy Idol is coterminous, there's no reason to add a "Season 1" header. --Howard the Duck 13:59, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Regional issue revisited

Hey, besides cities the American Idol (season 7)#Regional Auditions also lists states so I guess this article should follow suit. Now, I know that we don't have any states and we have provinces but I don't agree in using them. Using provinces might make that list look redundant (ex. Cebu City, Cebu; Batangas City, Batagas; etc...). They are also not unversal since Pasay isn't in a province so I propose using regions instead.

  • I would also like to point out that yes Davao City, Davao Region might look redundant but not as repeatedly redundant as the example stated above. And the regions are also different from American regions such as New England since they are mandated by either the legistration or the adminstration so they act more like states than merely cultural regions.23prootie (talk) 09:09, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
All but 1 region are not LGUs. See Administrative divisions of the Philippines. Ergo, it's wrong to write "Santa Rosa, Laguna, CALABARZON". I mean who does that, anyway? --Howard the Duck 09:31, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
The discussion above has clearly showed that showing the "region" is nescessary at least for one city (Pasay) because genrally there are some people who are unaware where it is. Anyway if the article should follow a "worldwide view" then "Metro Manila" should be added since most people around the world believe that any part of Metro Manila is simply "Manila" as certain news reports have stated in the case of Makati. Aso, I thought you have agreed in Adding Metro Manila. 23prootie (talk) 10:07, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
Qoute:":Fine, I'll agree on that. I just cringe to see those regional names (see the tables above) and the fact 23prootie can't wait for a couple of minutes for replies. --Howard the Duck 03:28, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

"---23prootie (talk) 10:08, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

I dunno why "Metro Manila" wasn't there anyway since I was fine with that already. Anyway, I'll be adding it. But please, don't add other regions' names. Mind you, American "regions" are also used by the federal government mostly for stats. --Howard the Duck 10:11, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] The Audition Dates

I think the dates of the auditions shall be included in the article. First of all, you deleted the table I made for the Auditions:

City Venue Date No. of Qualifiers
Cagayan de Oro SM Cagayan de Oro January 17, 2008
Batangas City, Batangas SM City Batangas January 24, 2008
Iloilo City SM City Iloilo January 31, 2008
Cebu City SM City Cebu February 7, 2008
Davao City SM City Davao February 14, 2008
Pasay SM Mall of Asia February 21, 2008
San Fernando, Pampanga SM City Pampanga March 13, 2008
Dagupan CSI The City Mall March 16, 2008
Naga SM City Naga March 27, 2008

Then, you told me that we should just copy the way it was written in American Idol.

Now, you wanted to write the Audition section into paragraph form. How can we identify how many qualifiers made it? And I do hardly believe that it is better to write it in bulleted form or in table format. Celester Mejia 10 March 2008, 09:17 (UTC)

This is a part of WikiProject Idol series so partly what is done on other Idol series articles will be applied here. There'll be little "innovation" here from other Idol series articles to promote stability and consistency. --Howard the Duck 01:30, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
The table above would only make the article too long with unnecessary information. We try to keep the article as brief yet factual as possible so we could submit this for WP:GA (which Philippine Idol has already achieved). Starczamora (talk) 03:25, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] "Recognized as the first Philippine Idol"

This should be cleared up. Philippine Idol and Pinoy Idol are two different shows so technically GMA is searching for the first "Pinoy Idol" while Mau Marcelo is the first and only Philippine Idol. I have yet to see a report saying GMA or FremantleMedia doesn't recognize her as the first Idol franchise winner. --Howard the Duck 05:09, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Whenever Mau Marcelo guests on SOP Rules, she is referred to as The Country's Fastest-Rising Diva. I'm still searching for the article where host Raymond Gutierrez stated "Ibang show po 'yon" (It's a different show, referring to Philippine Idol). Starczamora (talk) 06:10, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
But have they said that she's not the first "Philippine Idol"? They're probably avoiding the issue so that part should be cleared up. GMA hasn't confirmed or denied that they did not recognize Mau Marcelo as the first local Idol series winner. --Howard the Duck 12:59, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
If no one objects I'll fix the blurbs about this issue shortly. --Howard the Duck 17:40, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
I found the article na, wherein Raymond Gutierrez refers to Philippine Idol as "a different show". They are probably avoiding the issue on Mau though. Starczamora (talk) 03:58, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
I think every well-informed person knows that the two shows are different so Raymond is correct in saying that they're looking for the first "Pinoy Idol", now if he or anyone else from GMA or FremantleMedia said that Mau isn't the first local Idol series winner then that's worth mentioning. --Howard the Duck 04:20, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
I hope you don't mind (I know Wikipedia isn't a forum, but I have to bring this up), but speaking of Philippine Idol, did you know Jefferson Gayo, a Cebu auditioner from Philippine Idol is also one of those who passed in the Pinoy Idol Cebu auditions. If he gets through the semi-finals, we must take note of his Philippine Idol audition. Also, on a related note, Miguel Mendoza is now a possible finalist on the second season of Pinoy Dream Academy. - 上村七美 (Nanami-chan) | talkback | contribs 09:39, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
PS: It's time we clean that article up because parts of it are now plagued with bad grammar. - 上村七美 (Nanami-chan) | talkback | contribs 09:42, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Top 24 Song Selections

For quick reference, here they are: http://www.pinoyidol2008.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=51&Itemid=1 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.61.65.87 (talk) 16:04, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Those better wait. It's considered WP:CRYSTAL if we post them now. - 上村七美 (Nanami-chan) | talkback | contribs 16:29, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Workshop phase

Here I added this subsection due to its importance: The workshop phase will begin on May 23, with the top 12 men performing first, while the top 12 women will be be shown on May 24, and the first elimination will be on May 25.www.gmanews.tv/story, Pinoy Idol presents its Top 24 to the entertainment press --Florentino floro (talk) 08:05, 22 May 2008 (UTC)