Talk:Pikes Peak
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[edit] Apostrophe
In case anybody wants to argue the apostrophe, please review http://geonames.usgs.gov/pls/gnispublic/f?p=gnispq:3:::NO::P3_FID:204770 and http://mapping.usgs.gov/www/gnis/pppdgn.html#5-A , which lays out the USGS policy on this issue. Also Google shows 6x as many hits for "pikes peak" as for "pike's peak". Stan 19:51 Apr 28, 2003 (UTC)
[edit] Secret Message
Anyone found the "secret message" ( Talk:Steganography ) on this page? -- Aparajit 06:30, Jun 24, 2004 (UTC)
- Yes. See Talk:Steganography#Stegonography_Easter_Egg.3F. <>< tbc 04:12, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Woodrow Wilson
Can anyone confirm the 'Wilson rode along' fact? For I have found a number of online sources noting that he was (none, I believe, are reputable to make it definitive, though). I wouldn't be surprised that it was just a matter of awkward wording/reasoning: like 'Woodrow Wilson rode along. Woodrow Wilson is now a former president. Therfore, former president Woodrow Wilson rode along.' I.e. not that at the time he was former president. --patton1138 14:01, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Did Zeb Really Say Nobody had ever or could ever climb it?
It's always seemed improbable to me that Pike would have said this. Rather, his claim should be seen in the context foul weather, tired men unprepared for such an excursion, and a mission with other more important objectives yet to complete.
Here is a web reference of the Pike document from which this claim almost certainly comes:
The summit of the Grand Peak, which was entirely bare of vegetation and covered with snow, now appeared at the distance of 15 or 16 miles from us, and as high again as what we had ascended, and would have taken a whole day's march to have arrived at its base, when I believed no human being could have ascended to its pinical. This with the condition of my soldiers who had only light overalls on, and no stockings, and every way ill provided to endure the inclemency of the region; the bad prospect of killing any thing to subsist on, with the further detention of two or three days, which it must occasion, determined us to return.
I've always felt this was a stretch of the truth and somewhat demeans the memory of Lieutenanant Pike in light of today's easy access to the top. I'll hold off any edits to this effect until I see if I get contrary opinions here. --Woody 00:19, 1 August 2005 (UTC)
I think that the determining factor here is when I believed no human being could have ascended to its pinical. In this he seems to say that it's impossible, but I agree with you that this meaning is taken out of context. I'd agree with editing to add this paragraph and make the article less judgemental of Pike. Aspengrey 23:46, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Deleted Images
I wrote, "It is notable for its imposing appearance both from the east (167Kb image) and from the west (179Kb image)." But someone deleted my images. Why? <>< tbc 04:09, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
- You didn't give them a free license originally, then later somebody added a standard "fairuse" tag. We've been cracking down on fair use images more recently, which includes deleting orphans (can't be fair use without being used!). It's not clear why User:TheCoffee thought those pics were orphans; I myself lost several and had to re-upload because the one page they were used on had been emptied, and they were marked as orphans before the page was restored. (Yes, I said a few bad words when I discovered that one!) In this case, I don't see vandalism in the time period when TheCoffee marked them as orphans, so I think maybe he was being too hasty/sloppy (or perhaps the db server lied about the linkage, as it sometimes does). We now have a 7-day waiting period in Category:Orphaned fairuse images, gives a last chance for things wrongly orphaned. Yeah, it's all a nuisance, but given WP's recent, ahem, visibility in the press, we need to make sure our image usage is all squeaky clean. You probably want to check all your old uploads, update their license info, and consider moving as much as possible to commons (which seems to be lacking Pikes pictures). Sorry about the snafu. Stan 06:31, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
- Thanks for the prompt reply, Stan. I actually just figured out what happened thanks to kate's tool. I came back to this page to note what I learned. But your explanation about the fair use thing fills out the picture. This project has gotten so bloody big that I'm finding it hard to maintain my own work. But I got motivated tonight and started cleaning up my contribs. <>< tbc 07:12, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
Closing this issue out for now. I'll get around to re-uploading my images sometime. <>< tbc 07:12, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Routes
I updated Pikes Peak#Pikes Peak today to reflect the "other" hiking route starting at the Crags Campground. It's just plain wrong that there are only three routes to the top. Ironically, I've climbed that route two or three times, but I have yet to set foot on the Barr Trail. <>< tbc 18:27, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
On the Pikes Peak Highway, someone might want to check into this. In a recent program on the Travel Channel, a spokesman for the City of Colorado Springs stated the city was going to pave the road all the way up the mountain. Erzahler 19:34, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Pikes Peak Higher than Thought?
According to a Denver Post article in 2002, the United States Geological Survey recalculated the height of Colorado. They state that Pikes Peak gained five feet and is now 14,115 feet in height. Can someone verify this? I was going to change this in the article, but I'd like to have some verification first. Erzahler 17:46, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
I've actually got it at 14,118 based on a high-accuracy GPS transponder I just took up to the summit. I'm looking for comfirmation, but I was told (by Summit House) that the new 'official' height is at 14,117, and I believe that htis was performed by CC students using the same method I used. Maybe give USGS a shout? ~Aesop PS: I changed this and also changed age based on UCCS findings. Will post verification in two days. (When I can access it again)
YES, I can verify that the new height is 14,115 feet. (Although, an article in the Colorado Springs Gazette said it was currently too expensive to change the USGS maps.) The new elevation was measured by the National Geodetic Survey. See for yourself by checking out PID JK1242 in the National Geodetic Survey Database.
[edit] Metric units
In the comment associated with his edit[1], which converted the Pikes Peak statistics to metric, Adam Clotfelter states that "The metric system is the official legally preferred system of units for the United States of America".
That statement is misleading, at best. The Metric Conversion Act of 1975, as amended by the Omnibus Trade and Competitiveness Act of 1988, "designate[s] the metric system of measurement as the preferred system of weights and measures for United States trade and commerce" [emphasis added]. The act goes on to "permit the continued use of traditional systems of weights and measures in non-business activities".
Any argument that this act is justification for forcing a conversion to metric units for U.S. Wikipedia pages is, in my opinion, weak to the point of overreaching. At any rate, the Wikipedia Manual of Style covers this: "If for some reason the choice of units is arbitrary, choose SI units as the main unit, with other units in parentheses. For subjects dealing with the United States, it might be more appropriate to use U.S. measurements first, i.e. mile, foot, U.S. gallon."
--JFreeman (talk) 22:23, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Why not metric?
Sure, people in this country (USA) still use traditional units for a lot of things, but the fact of the matter is that since the Mendenhall Order of 1893, metric units have been declared to be the "fundamental standards of length and mass" in the United States. As such, all Imperial units that remain in use in this country are actually defined in terms of metric base units. This is not a personal attack on anyone who still uses Imperial units in their daily lives, but the fact of the matter is that metric units are the basis of measurement across the globe... including the US. I certainly agree that traditional units should still co-exist for the time being next to metric units for backward-compatibility, but in the area of factual reference, metric should prevail. Wikipedia is an international resource, and it makes sense that the default form of measurement should be SI. The Wikipedia guidelines do not take a hard stance on this one way or the other, but do state that metric units should be utilized as primary units unless there is a compelling reason not to utilize them. As a citizen of the US, you use metric all the time... and you're using it more and more often each day. Metric is not something to be feared, it’s all around us, and not at all hard to use. If you estimate the size of an object, you may do it in inches, but the truth is that often times it is probably made to metric specifications. People fear change, this is natural, but that doesn’t mean that we should stop evolving. EnsRedShirt's name indicates that they are a fellow trekkie (“trekker”, if you prefer), so you are probably a pretty forward-looking person. If you want to look at it from this standpoint, it only makes sense that we should help people get even more used to using metric in their daily lives. For our “growth” as a people, it only makes sense that we should use a rational and internationally agreed-upon system of measure. The longer we bicker and fight about this inevitable change, the more time we waste. I believe that this change is warranted, and in reality, required. A focus on promoting metric measures will help promote our favorite knowledgebase as a viable and credible resource for professionals around the world.
Thank You.
- I am all in favor of metrics it just plain makes more sense, but, the primary unit of elevation mesaurment in the US and Colorado in particular is imperial. Most people reading this article are going to be americans. The primary numbers should be in the system used by the country, and any other systems should be secondary. You wouldn't put the distance of two point in the US (or UK) in KM as the primary would you? EnsRedShirt 18:00, 25 December 2006 (UTC)
- As a matter of fact, I would use metric to denote the distance. I think it's a common misconception that "America doesn't use metric". Metric is all around us every day. I think that people believe that America will always use the imperial system... this is not the case. Due to a number of factors, the metrication process in this country has taken far longer than it should, but don't believe for a second that it will always be that way. But, also think of it this way: On Wikipedia, we go out of our way to try and make sure that articles do not have a cultural/national bias. We like our information to be objective and balanced. When you time-stamped your post, you used UTC. Metric measures are no less "valid" than imperial ones... they are perfectly acceptable for use in the US... and widely understood around the world. Imperial units should be presented as well for the time being for the small percentage of the world-wide audience that might not yet be comfortable with metric. I believe that as an international resource, we should be giving preference to metric measures... but it does seem that I am out-voted for the time being. Adam Clotfelter 05:59, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Article requests
We need one on the Pikes Peak Range Riders, the AdAMan Club, Barr Camp... Chris 01:47, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Zebulon Pike not the first to see Pikes Peak
Zebulon Pike and members of his expedition were undoubtedly NOT the first "non-native" to see Pike's Peak. Spanish and French had been in and out of Colorado for 80 to 140 years before Pike. Probably the first non native to see Pikes Peak are undocumented forgotten souls. However there are many who preceded Pike that we do know about. These are a few... 1660's. Juan Archuleta. 1706. Juan de Ulibarri. 1714. Joseph Naranjo. 1720. Don Pedro de Villasur. 1739. Pierre and Paul Mallet. (first recorded French explorers, but there were other French probably as early as 1719). Even in Pike's own journal there are references to those that preceded him in traveling across the plains, that he met in Santa Fe. Baptiste La Lande left Kaskaskia, IL in 1804. James Pursley arrived in Santa Fe June 1805. This is my first message posted to Wikipedia. I am a total newbie. I am not sure how to edit the article to correct the error. Perhaps the best solution is to simply remove the statement that says the Pike expedition was the first to see Pikes Peak. Or maybe change it to read something like: "Zebulon Pike was the first to popularize the existence of Pikes Peak by writing about it extensively in his journal, including his attempt to climb it." One source says, "His written description of the mountain that would later bear his name was perhaps the first printed in the English language" — Leah Davis Witherow, "Marketing the Mountain: Pikes Peak in the Popular Imagination". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.71.11.89 (talk) 20:32, 25 April 2008 (UTC) Oops, I forgot to sign my post. Marco Mann (talk) 20:48, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Cultural references
To my mind, the recently added cultural reference is too trivial for inclusion in the article. It is an offhand line in a movie having nothing to do with Pikes Peak. I don't think that it belongs. Plazak (talk) 20:44, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
