Talk:PIDE

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[edit] Lisbon Report

I have a real problem with "Several German officers who plotted against Hitler met with the British Secret Services in Lisbon, to trade information. The famous report that made the allies know of the V2 tests in Peenemunde was even known as the "Lisbon Report"." I have removed the offending information, unless somebody can give references. I can find no information that suggests that the officers behind the July 20 Plot had any involvement in Lisbon. In fact there is no reference to which plotters are being referred to (July 20 is the most famous, of course). The "Lisbon Report" may well be correct but, again, the only information I can find about it comes from this page. Even if the Lisbon Report can be reinserted I am extremely cautious about the claim regarding the officer's plot. It should only be put in (a) if a reference can be found to substantiate the claim and (b) with enough specific information for there to be an internal link to the Plot or plotters involved. I have provided some substitute information about spies in Lisbon during WWII instead. --VivaEmilyDavies 00:51, 6 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Fascists? No!...

I have changed the term 'fascist' into 'authoritarian'. Salazar himself would never have called himself a fascist, nor would historians who have acquired a good historic view of fascism. Also, the Wikipedia article António de Oliveira Salazar disputes the label 'fascist' for Salazar's regime, naming it dictatorial, in stead. 'Fascism' is too often used to denote authoritarian, right-wing thought. The only fascists were the followers of Benitto Mussolini, the National Socialists of Adolf Hitler and people who identify with these regimes.

Best regards, Thiois

[edit] Splitting

This page seems to be talking about 3 seperate agencies, the PVDE, the PIDE, and the DGS. Whould anyone complain if I (or anyone) split PVDE and DGS off into their own articles? 68.39.174.39 23:46, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] No spliting

It's the same police with different names. I´d advise not to split: for example, the commission in charge of it after the Carnation Revolution was Comissão de Extinção da PIDE/DGS.

And the name is Polícia Internacional e de Defesa do Estado (International and State Defense Police). This is because they had two primary functions: acting as border agents as well as intelligence

I'm following the USSRs example: Each seperate iteration for their secret police has its own page (Except OGPU which is part of GPU because noone knows which translation OGPU really stands for). Also, is PIDE the best place for this? Why not DGS or PVDE? Or something all-encompassing like "Secret Police under the Estado Novo"? Thanx 68.39.174.150 21:44, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)

  • IMO it is fine as it is now. I see no gain in splitting an average sized article into three small ones. If it grows too large then it will make sense. Until then a couple of redirects from DGS and PVDE are certainly enough, if not excessive. --Nabla 22:21, 2005 Apr 25 (UTC)
    • Alright, I'll wait... 68.39.174.150 11:40, 16 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] "sanitized"

What does this mean? Its not very clear from the context Cxk271 11:26, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Watered-down and inconsequent

What on Earth does the following paragraph have to do with PIDE, or anything?

During the war, the PVDE experienced its most intense period of activity. Lisbon was the European centre of espionage and one of the favourite exile destinations. Writers such as Ian Fleming (the creator of James Bond) and other famous personalities such as the Duke of Windsor or the Spanish Royal Family were exiled in Lisbon. German spies attempted to buy information on trans-Atlantic shipping to help their submarines fight the Battle of the Atlantic. The Spaniard Juan Pujol Garcia, better known as Codename Garbo, passed on misinformation to the Germans, hoping it would hasten the end of the Franco regime - he was recruited by Britain as a double agent while in Lisbon. Conversely, William Colepaugh, an American traitor, was recruited as an agent by the Germans while his ship was in port in Lisbon - he was subsequently landed by U-boat U-1230 in Maine before being captured. In June 1943, a commercial airliner carrying the actor Leslie Howard was shot down over the Bay of Biscay by the Luftwaffe after taking off from Lisbon, possibly because German spies in Lisbon believed that Prime Minister Winston Churchill was on board.

Is the article supposed to be about international espionage in World War II?! This article is much too watered down, and tip-toes around the ugly facts about PIDE. FilipeS 20:05, 12 January 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Apparent Error Concerning the Duke of Windsor at Estoril

Re: "During the war, the PVDE experienced its most intense period of activity. Lisbon was the European centre of espionage and one of the favourite exile destinations. Writers such as Ian Fleming (the creator of James Bond) and other famous personalities such as the Duke of Windsor or the Spanish Royal Family were exiled in Estoril."

As far as I know, while the Duke of Windsor spent a month or so as the houseguest of Ricardo Espirito Santo near Estoril on his way home after the fall of France in 1940, he was not in the least "exiled" there. The whole episode is covered at length in Bloch, Michael, Operation Willi :The Plot to Kidnap the Duke of Windsor July 1940, London: Weidenfeld and Nicolson, 1984. See also the Wikipedia entry "Operation Willi."

In my opinion the whole section on espionage in Lisbon during WW II could use a careful fact-check. There is some truth to it, certainly, but the facts are sloppy.

One is curious also about the role of the secret police in the various Portuguese black markets that sprang up to supply the Axis (and perhaps also the Allies) with raw materials smuggled through the blockade in small quantities such as industrial (and possibly gem) diamonds, platinum, liver extract and quinine from South America. I don't mean to imply that these were the most crucial ones; they are just something I happen to have become slightly familiar with from researching a book for someone once.FurnaldHall (talk) 08:06, 8 February 2008 (UTC)