Wikipedia:Picture peer review/Image:Entamoeba histolytica life cycle-en.svg

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[edit] Entamoeba histolytica Life cycle

well i have 2 reasons , the first is that i think it is well made and the second is the person who was helping me to do this images doesnt seem to answer my mesages and i need someone to check wether it is acurate enough to be FP.-LadyofHats (talk) 15:25, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Nominated by

LadyofHats (talk) 15:25, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Comments

• Thanks for the nomination. Without saying too much, can I just clarify that this is a cycle - it says it's a lifecycle, and is drawn in that fashion, but is lacking arrows to give the directionality that is usually present in cycles like this. Without those I'm finding it a bit hard to follow. I'm also not clear on what parts are happening inside and what's outside the body. --jjron (talk) 07:38, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
  • I may not be wording that all that clearly. I guess what I'm mainly finding a bit unclear is how the cycle links to the body - it basically suggests that those parts going off the cycle and into the body are the 'end of the story', but I don't think that's the case. The 'invasive infection' part is particularly unclear as that's a whole chunk off the main cycle that just stops. As you've said at other times, such as the current arm FPC, the diagram needs to be used in conjunction with the article (or I'd suggest a really well written caption & description page). I'd say that's probably especially the case here. --jjron (talk) 07:06, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
    • this is not only a cycle, it is a circle, so it doesnt really matters a lot where you start to read it and reading usually goes from left to right. still i aded some arrows so you can see in wich direction it goes.

Well it is a lifecycle... Anyway, the arrows do help, but would also be good on the parts that lead off the main circle, especially the two on the right - the bottom one for example may be going in or out of the body (or are they just indicating where in the body those things occur? If so, and I think they are just pointers, I think they should be the thin black pointers instead (see below)). --jjron (talk) 14:44, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

• I am not expert on this matter but i thought logic would sugest that what happens outside the body is what is between the text "cyst leaves host" and "ingestion". now i really wanted to aboid explaining how does things that you "ingest" tend to leave the body.

Sure, but there is nothing happening in between those two points - in other words pretty much this whole thing is happening inside the body, right? That being the case, would it be useful to enlarge the whole body, and actually track this thing through the body, rather than just having the little body in the middle (even if it means losing the circular shape of the cycle)? Dunno, just an idea. And why avoid indicating the egestion? That is an encyclopaedic part of the cycle, there's no reason to censor it. In fact I think you're really reducing value by not stating how the cysts exit the body. --jjron (talk) 14:44, 14 March 2008 (UTC) Another thought, perhaps make a bigger space between when it leaves the body and re-enters, maybe with slight gaps at either end, and perhaps with a comment on the cysts contaminating food/water, and colour that part of the circle a different colour (the different colouring is pretty much already done, but it could perhaps be made more obvious that one colour on the cycle is internal, the other external). --jjron (talk) 07:07, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

• I think that to understand the lines in the diagram you should have look a bit on the article. when you get this parasite inside you it only gives you problems 1 out of 10 times, the rest of the time it only goes out as it came in, well maybe in higher numbers. 1 of each 10 times the parasite gets to invade the intestinal mucosa, wich in other words means they enter your blood, and for there they infect almust everywhere. in this cases unless you get dhiarrea the parasite doesnt go out and even if they do, they die outside since only the cyst are able to survive. that is why that branch of the circle is broken. or leads anywhere. on the other hand the yellow arrows are to point where happens what wich is important.

Why are the black pointers from invasive infection pointing to the lungs, liver and large intestine, when the text says liver, lungs and brain (and specifically also says extraintestinal)? And aren't those black pointers serving essentially the same purpose as the yellow arrows on the right, if so, why aren't they the same style? (Or am I misinterpreting something?) --jjron (talk) 14:44, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

• I also corrected some of the information that some users kindly explained me. is there anything else you think it needs to be changed?-LadyofHats (talk) 11:33, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

Some other suggestions:

• is there any difference between the 'quadrinucleate cyst' and the 'mature cyst'; I think they're the same thing, if so, why give them two names - couldn't it be say 'mature quadrinucleate cyst' in both places?
• I'd improve the wording under 'invasive infection', it doesn't read very clearly.
• in excystation change all the numbers to words for consistency (e.g., four, not 4);
• Why not state that excystation occurs in the small intestine in the text?
• Should the trophozoites be done with different colouring than the cysts? At the moment they have a different shape, but it's not that easy to pick up the change as the colouring is the same. In excystation you have that light blue part emerging from the cyst, but then that colouring disappears - maybe that colour should be used for the trophozoites?
• In fact I'd almost say excystation should be broken into two or three more steps - show the four nuclei trophozoite after emerging from the cyst, show it dividing into four, then show them dividing into eight.
• State where encystation occurs - presumably in the LI.
• What's the purpose of the unlabelled binucleate cyst over on the left?
• As mentioned above, be more specific about how cysts exit the host.

I'm not meaning to be particularly picky - in fact I think I'll give up commenting on these diagrams, as it takes a lot of time and just seems to cause conflict and offence. --jjron (talk) 14:44, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

ok i finally got time to check this again.i will try to answer all your points here so i spare you from reading all the top text again, if i miss anything just let me know:

• Color, both the cyst and the trophozoites have no color at all, the blue like you see coes from the "paint" it is used to be able to see them. both react the same way to this, so both have the same color yes. during the encystation the trophozoites breaking the cyst open seem not to have a complete cell wall. if you can see it here and also in the diagram here you will realise it happens this way. the missing color is that of the cover membrane
• arrows, i changed the arrows to be lines, exactly like thos that point the invasive infection, i also removed the arrow to the intestine, even when this is also afected. at the end the text pretends to mention "some" of the afected areas but the parasite can actually reach everywhere by the blood stream.
• exit, added a mention that the cyst goes out in the stool, did not add the text that it contaminates food, since it is a logical conclution when readin "ingestion in contaminated food"
• cyst a quadrinucleate cyst is the same as a mature cyst, the mention of it is to point out that it has 4 nucleous. and is something often made in other diagrams i have seen.I have also changed all numbers to text.
• text i am already quite unconfortable with the amount of text the diagram has, to point the intestine and to also mention it is redundant, and for making only text i could as well make no image at all. Still i changed the text to make the invasive infection more clear.
• the inmature cyst first take a round form then divides his nucleous forming a binuclear cyst and then divides again to form one mature cyst with 4 nucleous. so the binuclear cyst is there, becouse it is a step in the life cycle
• finally i will not coment about you being specially picky or not and if you want to give up comenting on the image then go ahead, you are free to deside. even then i am greatfull that you took so much time to coment on my image, even when we didnt agree always, it is refreshing to know someone else opinion.
• I will nominate it now for FP, and see what happens -LadyofHats (talk) 11:59, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

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