Talk:Piaggio P.180 Avanti

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Aircraft WikiProject

I'm slowly adding things to this page, partly based on my recollection from working on the project in 1980-81 Jim Hammer 23:52, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Canard

I think the term 'canard' is misused here. The canard configuration is where the horizontal stabiliser and pitch control surfaces are placed ahead of the wing. In this aircraft, the horizontal stabiliser is located behind the wing, and there is a foreplane at the nose of the aircraft. The pitch control surfaces (elevators) are still located on the horizontal stabiliser. The foreplane doesn't have any control surfaces (although it does have flaps). I believe a more accurate desciption of the configuration would be a 'tandem triplane'. Nick Moss 23:44, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

I'm revisiting this issue because, according to the article [[Canard {aeronautics)]], "The term canard has also come to mean any horizontal airfoil mounted in front of the main wing." Dictionary.com has, as one of the definitions, "Also called canard wing. one of two small lifting wings located in front of the main wings." This [patent for a tiltrotor lists fixed canards. The X-50 is described here as having a "fixed canard". The Kfir C2 is described here is described as having fixed canards. Seems like there is wide-spread usage of the term for fixed surfaces. There are more, but I'll stop with these. Unless someone comes up with a definitive source that says a canard has to have control surfaces, I plan on revision this article. Akradecki 04:09, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

As I understand it, even if it is not a forward control surface, if something is a forward lift-producing surface it is considered a canard. The configuration allows the forward surface (canard) to stall prior to the main wing, creating a condition where the aircraft itself will never truly stall. Control surfaces have little (or nothing at all!) to do with this. ericg ✈ 05:37, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Ericg - As I understand (but I need to find citations) 3LS Aircraft (The Term I've heard used on aviation boards) are designed to stall like conventional aircraft, not Canards- and usually have the same critical AOA for both the Canard and the main wing. This is actually the configuration's primary benefit over a Canard- which _MUST_ stall the canard before the main wing in _ALL_ possible configurations and relative wind angles within the aircraft's envelope, simply because a main-wing-stall in a canard is otherwise unrecoverable. Because of the need to keep the aircraft's envelope useful, the 'worse-case' designed mainwing thus rarely is allowed to approach Clmax, necessitating greater wing area to achieve the same total lift as a conventional aircraft. This larger wing, and hence greater profile drag, usually offsets the drag advantage provided by the lack of induced drag by the horizontal stabilizer. 3LS gets around this by acting as a conventional aircraft during a stall - the rear tailplane provides the down-moment to lower the AOA, not the main wing. This allows the main wing to operate much closer to Clmax, and hence have substantially less area than an equivalent canard. In fact, theoretically a 3lS aircraft can have the lowest net lifting area because not only can the wing operate near Clmax, but also the main wing does not need to provide extra lift to counteract the tail down force, further reducing the required wing area. It is meant to be a 'best of both worlds' comprise. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by -ESC69.8.229.254 (talk) 00:33, 26 April 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Questions and remarks

I ve read that the aircraft is a blended wing body. I am rather against this description. Because the wing seems not to be joint 'seamless'-ly with the fuselage. Maybe the author has wanted to say that the body is well profiled and is creating also lift and is more like a 'lifting body'. But I am not 100% sure of that.

Anyway I agree that it is a rather good design : -- engines in the back reduces the noises in the cabin because the noise is carried by the airflow. -- the engine at the back in case of blade breakage won't harm the cabin because situated backward (the rotor burst area is behind the cabin). This accident happen hardly never but had to be taken into account as there is no containement for the blades (contrary to most turbo jet engines). -- I also have to admit that the canard was for me any surface place on the front of an aircraft being mobile or not. But the only examples of canards in my mind are moving ones (like the Eurofighter)...

Thecrusader 440 (talk) 19:29, 10 June 2008 (UTC)