Talk:Phylogenetics
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[edit] from VfD
On 28 Mar 2005, this article was nominated for deletion. See Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Phylogenetics
[edit] The Picture
The picture on this article is technically a cladogram, not a phylogeny. This is because it does not incorporate environmental or temporal information. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 12.217.236.33 (talk) 23:04, 18 February 2007 (UTC).
There is an understood temporal component in all cladograms. The deeper branches are older. The term phylogeny is appropriate here as well as cladogram.
I should like to attract attention to the colouring of the diagram: what does the connection in red between the birds (where is actually turns orange: why is the overlay area between blue and yellow not green????????) and the mammalians stand for? There is no common ancestor to these branches who was warm blooded and we have an independant evolution of this feature: so what does this connection try to suggest here? Or does it simply attempt to confuse and render incomprehensible what is essentially straightforward??? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.132.203.205 (talk) 13:23, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Phenetics and cladistics as methods
The article's statement that "The most commonly used methods to infer phylogenies include cladistics, phenetics, maximum likelihood, and MCMC-based Bayesian inference." is a bit puzzling. (This is part of what I think is a general muddle over the term "cladistics"). The declaration that one method for inferring phylogenies is "phenetics" is strange, since phenetics as a philosophy of classification is positively uninterested in phylogenies and interprets its branching diagrams as classifications but not as phylogenies. What is going on here is to label parsimony methods "cladistics" and distance matrix methods "phenetics". In my view these latter two terms are best reserved as labels for approaches to classification, not methods for inferring phylogenies. The two get middled together all the time. (But keep in mind that in systematics this view of mine is considered by most people as dubious and marginal -- when it comes to this view I'm regarded as a fringe crackpot.) Felsenst
- I made these changes to the wording of that section. It's a drop in the bucket compared to what's needed with this article. --Aranae 17:15, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
[edit] embryology
would sympathtic editors consider a positive vote here? [1]Slrubenstein | Talk 15:18, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Monophyly, paraphyly and polyphyly merge
(Moved to talk:clade). Richard001 06:58, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Lumping and splitting
Would a discussion of "lumping" and "splitting"—what the terms mean, and how authorities come to such decisions—be warranted here? MeegsC | Talk 15:40, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
- At present this article is rather short, and such a new item might be out of proportion. But do take a look at Lumpers and splitters. The topic is explored there in some depth. EdJohnston 16:15, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Cladistics a synonym for phylogenetics?
Ernst Mayr would be rolling in his grave. I think this should be reverted. Cladistics is the Hennig school, and their view of how things go in phylogeny is far from universally shared. One of the problems is that the different authors give their own meanings to the words, and then assume that those meanings are universal. Phylogeny comes from the 18th century, before cladistics was thought of. All we should do is cover the controversy, without picking winners and losers. EdJohnston 19:43, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
Phylogenetic Systematics and Cladistics are two different approaches to interpretations of evolutionary relationships. They should not be used synonymously as phylogentic systematics takes in consideration of ALL homologous characters, whereas cladistics considers specifically chosen derived characters to reach generalizations of evolutionary relationships. This process results in a development of a phylogenetic chart showing relationships through time with hypothesized ancestor-descendant links (phylogenetic systematics) or a cladogram with no ancestor-descendant links hypothesis AND without a time dimension. Timothy Michael Earwood 04:40, 27 January 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Poethical (talk • contribs)
[edit] Who is this Williamson?
Williamson believes that larvae and embryos represent adults in other taxa that have been transferred by hybridization (the larval transfer theory)
Who is Williamson, why is he important, why should we care about his ideas, what exactly are his ideas anyway and what does hybridization or larval transfer mean in this context? Some of the readers are not as familiar in the field of developmental biology as you are, please try to keep that in mind. Shinobu 12:57, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Cladistics is a method to do ... what?
The article currently says:
Cladistics provides a simplified method of understanding phylogenetic trees. .... The most commonly used methods to infer phylogenies include parsimony, maximum likelihood, and MCMC-based Bayesian inference. Distance-based methods construct trees based on overall similarity which is often assumed to approximate phylogenetic relationships.
So is "cladistics" a method of "understanding" trees, or constructing them? Are parsimony, ML, and Bayesian methods examples of "cladistics"? Or not? Or do they reconstruct the trees which are then "understood" by cladistics? Also, why are distance methods "assumed to approximate phylogenetic relationships" but likelihood and Bayesian methods, which are based on the same models, not making that assumption? (Don't mind me, I am just harassing folks in this field because I think the standard descriptions of what is going on are totally muddled, and this article reflects that). Felsenst (talk) 20:28, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
- Hello, Professor F! We do have an article on Cladistics, but I believe it is an imaginative reconstruction of what the field ought to be, not referenced to reliable sources. (The content of Wikipedia articles may ironically reflect the popular understanding of certain topics, even when it diverges from the sources). I have a sense that it would be easier to reform our article on Maximum parsimony if anyone had the patience to begin. There is probably a real story to be told there, for which strong references could be found. Since that article at present has no inline citations, the rationale for re-writing is evident. EdJohnston (talk) 21:03, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
