Talk:Philipp Melanchthon

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Hello I have from German Side a same Picture in the Commons make. You can in the Commons see and here integreat. mfg Torsten Schleese :-).

Image:Philipp Melanchthon.jpg
Former illus, a 19th century engraving, replaced by the Dürer

Contents

[edit] Spelling

Are you sure its with 2 P's at the end. In my history book its with one--Primetimeking 19:47, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Total POV

Quote:

His humility and modesty had their root in his personal piety. He laid great stress upon prayer, daily meditation on the Word, and attendance of public service. In Melanchthon is found not a great, impressive personality, winning its way by massive strength of resolution and energy, but a noble character hard to study without loving and respecting.

Come on. Let's get serious here.

Surely that's no worse than putting the entry into the Saints wikiproject, as someone has done. Philip ain't no saint.
He would most surely have protested himself ;-) Said: Rursus ☻ 09:15, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Awesome article!

What a great article! I love reading it. There is however just a touch of POV, such as this sentance here

" Luther certainly never intended to exercise such a pressure, and if it existed at all, it was Melanchthon's own fault. "

Which actually made me laugh outloud! Just a bit astray of the NPOV, I'd have to guess, even with my own limited powers of judgement ;) Sam Spade 08:38, 4 Mar 2004 (UTC)

I think it is so 'non-encylopedic' in style, and a touch too sympathetic (and thus POV) because it is drawn practically bodily from the books in the source. By what I mean as 'POV' check out:
The more strongly he felt the opposition of the scholastic party to the reforms instituted by him at the University of Tübingen, the more willingly he followed a call to Wittenberg as professor of Greek, where he aroused great admiration by his inaugural De corrigendis adolescentiae studiis. He lectured before five to six hundred students, afterward to fifteen hundred. He was highly esteemed by Luther, whose influence brought him to the study of Scripture, especially of Paul, and so to a more living knowledge of the Evangelical doctrine of salvation.
--maru 23:32, 2 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Nitzsch

The reference to 'Nitzsch' in the section on Disputes with Osiander and Flacius appears just as it did in the article on which this whole entry is based. No details are given there so it is unclear which "Nitzsch' is meant. There are three possible candidates for whom there are entries in that encyclopaedia (New Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge):

  • Friedrich August Berthold Nitzsch 1832-1898
  • Carl (or Karl) Immanuel Nitzsch 1787-1868
  • Carl (or Karl) Ludwig Nitzsch 1751-1831

Someone would have to have access to their writings to discover which of them made that remark.

Can you German? Go pleace of the German Side and give Nitzsch in the Search Mask. Click of Artikel and you see 4 Persons from 5 whit Names Nitzsch.
Christian Ludwig Nitzsch, Biologe
Gregor Wilhelm Nitzsch, Philologe
Karl Ludwig Nitzsch, Theologe
Karl Immanuel Nitzsch, Theologe
One have I not, is for my no interesting. Are I can a Girl Nitzsch make. She have Rudolf Ewald Stier (in German geheiratet). Ciao Torsten

[edit] Variata

This article is pretty sympathetic to Melanchthon (rightly or wrongly) and tends to gloss some of the things that really should be brought out. First and foremost of these things would be the virtual omission of the Variata. The Variata is (are, if you are taking it as the body of changes made over the course of his life as opposed to the document Calvin signed) only mentioned by name once in the entire article, and that was one of the central issues surrounding Melanchthon's fall from favor amongst Lutheran theologians of the day. The article makes it sound as though nobody had any difficulties with the changes he made to the Augsburg Confession, but almost all Lutheran church bodies specify the UAC, or Unaltered Augsburg Confession and expressly reject the Variata. This is a powerful statement to Melanchthon's tendency toward synergism, or at the very least his tendency to ignore doctrinal disagreement in hopes of unity, and should really be brought out some in the article to balance the "Estimates of his Works and Character" section.

[edit] Not an astrologer

I removed the longstanding Astrologer categories because Melanchthon was not an astrologer. He was an author of textbooks on many subjects including natural philosophy, which included a bit of astrology, but he never (AFAIK) cast horoscopes or wrote a definitive book on astrological theory, and he considered himself not to be an expert in mathematics (a prerequisite to astrology). It would make at least as much sense to call him a historian or a physicist. It would make a lot more sense to call him a rhetorician or similar, since that's what he was originally trained in. Maestlin 19:41, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

No one was just a rhetorician back then, were they? But all astrologers were mathematicians, and everyone with a basic education was a rhetorician to some extent.

It'd be useful if someone could get around to writing up Melanchthon's reform of natural philosophy, which is what I came to the Wiki looking for. This article is too heavily dominated by theological interests. 86.147.4.208 10:08, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Generally not NPOV

Repeated from above:

  • he was no saint, he would have objected vigorously,
  • we have to source the alleged intentions behind his and Luthers conflicts,
  • the text is kind of non-NPOVish,

Added by me:

  • the text says the reason for his vague position seems to be "weak", "diffident", and lack of "political ambition" or some such which contradicts the fact that he took a major leadership after the death of Luther;

This makes the logical discourse decidedly weak! What if he, instead, was strongly intent on keeping the unity of church by deliberately designing vague and ambiguous statements? The strains and illnesses he exhibit, looks to me, like a general stress syndrom of being attacked from all directions, while keeping his temper. This my hypothesis, cannot be the basis for the article, but it must be kept in mind, as an example of different possible interpretations on his intentions. Said: Rursus ☻ 09:28, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Retract own statement: OK, for some lutherans he is a "saint" extraordinaire, see Calendar of Saints (Lutheran)! Acc2 protestantism, everybody is a saint, which is democratic and fine, although my sainthood doesn't make me feel any better, so in some sense Melanchton is a saint. Said: Rursus ☻ 10:01, 24 August 2007 (UTC)