Talk:Philip Zhai

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography. For more information, visit the project page.	Biography Portal
Stub	This article has been rated as Stub-Class on the project's quality scale. [FAQ]
	This article is supported by the Science and academia work group.

This article has been automatically assessed as Stub-Class by WikiProject Biography because it uses a stub template. If you agree with the assessment, please remove {{WPBiography}}'s auto=yes parameter from this talk page. If you disagree with the assessment, please change it by editing the class parameter of the {{WPBiography}} template, removing {{WPBiography}}'s auto=yes parameter from this talk page, and removing the stub template from the article.

	Philosophy Portal This article is within the scope of the WikiProject Philosophy, which collaborates on articles related to philosophy. To participate, you can edit this article or visit the project page for more details.
Stub	This article has been rated as Stub-Class on the quality scale.
Low	This article has been rated as low-importance on the importance scale.
Additional information: Related task forces (major fields): Philosophers

[edit] "Chinese" "philosopher" vs. "Chinese philosoph"er ???

Yuechen z insists that we mustn't say that Zhai is a Chinese philosopher, because that implies that he does traditional Chinese philosophy. Thus modern Chinese philosophers can't be given a nationality. I think that this is absurd, and have argued that the term doesn't have that connotation. Yuechen z hasn't responded to my point, but simply deleted the nationality. Any other comments? Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 14:56, 29 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Don't you hate ambiguous English? What does "Chinese Philosopher" usually mean? Anyone who studies traditional Chinese philosophy or a Chinese person who studies any philosophy? [[1]] lists Chinese thinkers, but not Chinese Philosophers, isn't that an answer to the question? I don't think this article should be listed along with Confusius and Mo Zi etc. I vote to take it out of the category. Kowloonese 23:45, May 27, 2005 (UTC)

"Chinese philosopher" normally means neither of the above — it's normally used to refer to a Chinese philosopher: a philosopher who's Chinese, a Chinese person who's a philosopher. In just the same way, English philosophers are English people who are philosophers, even if they spend all their time studying German, or French, or Chinese philosophy (or if they just do philosophy). There's at least one Web page that lists me as an African philosopher, and I've always found that very odd, given that I'm half-English, half-Irish, and not African at all (so far as I know); I'm interested in African philosophy, and have written on it and taught it, but that doesn't change my nationality or ethnic origin.

As for the claim that Category:Philosophers by nationality doesn't list Chinese philosophers, that's just an oversight, now remedied. Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 19:21, 28 May 2005 (UTC)

Think about what "Greek philosopher" means, and you'll be clear about what "Chinese philosopoher" means.

It is not clear if Greek philospher should refer to the great philosphers in Greece in their hay days, or a Vietnamese scholar who study Greek philosophy. The problem don't change a bit when you substitute Greek for Chinese. Kowloonese 19:22, Jun 9, 2005 (UTC)

A Greek philosopher is a philosopher who is Greek, whether ancient or modern; I've never seen it used to mean someone who studies ancient Greek philosophy. Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 09:31, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC)

So a Greek scholar specialized in Chinese philosophy is still a Greek Philosopher?

Yes

So what do you call a philosopher who study Greek philosophy? Kowloonese 18:21, Jun 10, 2005 (UTC)

A philosopher who studies Greek philosophy. Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 18:38, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Usually, "Greek philosophers" refers to Ancient Greek philosophers such as Plato and Aristotle, not contemporary philosophy professors whose nationality is Greek. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 61.144.54.42 (talk • contribs) 14:59, 11 Jun 2005

No, it doesn't. I am a professional philosopher, and have been teaching and working in the field for some twenty years, and I know something whereof I speak. I have friends and colleagues from Athens, Ioannina, and elsewhere in Greece, and they are referred to as Greek philosophers — because they're philosophers and they're Greek. There are contexts in which reference to "Greek philosophers" would be taken to refer spcifically to ancient philosophers (rather like the phrase "ancient philosopher"), but that's a different matter. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 14:19, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)

English language evolves constantly. Sometimes misuses eventually become standard usage. And during the transition, people like you and me disagree on the definition. I would argue that Mel Etitis is not in a neutral position to comment on this because he himself is a "Greek philosopher" under his definition. A NPOV can only come from one who is not involved in the dispute. If I were a philospher myself, I would definitely want my name listed next to Confucius and Mencius. Kowloonese 21:55, Jun 13, 2005 (UTC)

I'm not a Greek philosopher under my definition (nor under any definition). If I were, it wouldn't affect the current discussion, in any case; the idea that someone can't recognise and argue from a NPoV if they're involved is bizarre (or is it my being a philosopher that disqualifies me from being NPoV about philosophy?). The use of English hasn't changed. Finally, my position is precisely that, if you were Chinese and a philosopher, then you should be listed with Confucius and Mencius. Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 22:21, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] WikiProject class rating

This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as stub, and the rating on other projects was brought up to Stub class. BetacommandBot 04:21, 10 November 2007 (UTC)