Talk:Philip Glass

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[edit] Article too long?

Do others agree with me this this article is disproportionately long and detailed in relation to the importance of this composer in the great scheme of things? It runs to some 5000 words - more than 10% longer than the article on Beethoven himself! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.232.212.61 (talk) 13:23, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Introduction

His music is frequently described as minimalist.

Is there such a controversy that we must state that some people think of him as a minimalist musician, instead of simply stating that he is a minimalist musician? --Liberlogos 05:28, 2 Aug 2004 (UTC)

culminating in the four-hour-long Music in Twelve Parts (1971-1974), which ironically uses a twelve-note theme as the material of the last part. Is ironic really the right word to use here? Is this really ironic at all?

He himself does not want to be called a minimalist. "I wish that word was stamped out" is his comment about it. He freely admits that all work up to and including Music in Twelve Parts may be called minimalist, but starting with Einstein on the Beach his work had reached maturity and therefore was no longer experimental. I think its a good idea to keep the idea that not everyone sees his music as this way, although it is a good shorthand for classifying his music. catisonh 06:33, Aug 18, 2004 (UTC)


Ransom Wilson was a flutist for Philip Glass during the original performances of Einstein on the Beach. Regarding Glass' repetition, he said, "At first I was bored-- very bored. The music seemed to have no direction, almost giving the impression of a gigantic phonograph with a stuck needle. I was first irritated and then angry that I'd been taken in by this crazy composer who obviously doted on repetition. I thought of leaving. Then, with no conscious awareness, I crossed a threshold and found that the music was touching me, carrying me with it. I began to perceive within it a whole world where change happens so slowly and carefully that each new harmony or rhythmic addition or subtraction seemed monumental."--Dar-Ape 00:56, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)


It's interesting that Philip Glass and Peter Shickele were at Juilliard at the same time, and Glass helped Shickele build the first hardart for the Concerto for Horn and Hardart. I'm not saying this is significant, but it is interesting. Here's the citation: http://www.juilliard.edu/update/journal/j_articles285.html That must have been one heck of a composition class.

That is pretty cool. Why does the name Albert Fine sound familiar? Isn't he a famous composer too? I think its funny to see Glass with a cigarette in his mouth back then. -- Suso 18:08, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] A joke

I just wanted to put this out there, as I find it pretty damn hilarious: Knock knock Who's there? Knock knock Who's there? Knock knock Who's there? Knock knock Who's there? Knock knock Who's there? Philip Glass! aubrey 22:17, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Try this other one:

- Philip Glass Organ Works

- Mine does too...!

[edit] "Cuddly persona" paragraph

I have removed the following from the text as a potential POV violation:

"Philip cultivates a "cuddly" persona as a contrast to former ensemble mate Steve Reich, but ensures that his mini-empire of publishing companies, record labels and recording studios is run as a tight ship by deploying his "bully boys" Kurt Munkacsi and Rory Gallager (the former road manager for the Sex Pistols) to do his dirty work."

The anonymous user who posted the above also placed a questionable and erroneous statement regarding Laurie Anderson being the heir to a paint company fortune (something that no one I've contacted has been able to confirm). I do not know enough about Glass to make the same claim about the edit made here, but at the very least I think it needs to be reworded.23skidoo 02:53, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I would consider it a NPOV policy violation, and not potential, though possibly done in ignorance of the policy, linked to again here:
The fact that Laurie Anderson has been similarly edited against the NPOV policy is slightly alarming as it does suggest vandalism, though, again, it could be a new editor or someone otherwise ignorant of the NPOV policy.
However, Glass takes obvious pains to sculpt his public image (which I consider ego-centric), though I have no idea what his "dirty work" is (I picture something out of the Godfather, a stuffed-cheek Phil ordering somebody wiped out). More importantly, POV's are great, I think they are the best part of articles, but they need to be stated in a neutral way. I would love to see a quote or citation for the point of view that Glass cultivates a cuddly image while being a ruthless businessperson. Hyacinth 03:08, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Exactly. I'm not out to defend Glass any more than I'm out to defend Laurie Anderson against a veiled claim that she doesn't need arts grants to do her work (as I interpreted the Anderson edit to imply). But as both additions stand, I consider them borderline libel. If 194.237.142.21 can provide a source, great. But I agree with you that these two edits are close to being vandalism. But let's see what happens. I've got both the Glass and Anderson pages on my Watch list so if this person makes good on the previous edits, then no harm done. I agree there is nothing wrong with POV but they have to be balanced and, when necessary, attributed. 23skidoo 03:38, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Life and Work

This section seems focused on the professional work of Philip Glass and the section is only loosely chronological; so how and where do you best fit in personal details? For example, "He also has two kids, Zack Glass and Juliet Glass" (that tidbit is quite disconnected in it's current location) and the fact that his first wife, and mother of his children, was JoAnne Akalaitis; his current (forth) wife is Holly Critchlow; his third wife died of cancer, etc. There seems to be no logical or intuitive place to include this information. Comments? - Ra* 06:26, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

If I was going to do anything I would seperate the two, making a "Life" section and a "Work" section. I would seperate out the information and then make it chronological, if possible. Hyacinth 08:26, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

A list of works would be nice, or a separate page for that, or (if one already exists and I simply haven't found it) a more obvious link to the list of works. -Unregistered user, 12:33, 4 February 2007

This list is located at List of compositions by Philip Glass. It's the first link in the "Life and Work" section, although it's definitely easy to overlook. Rmannion 20:45, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] 123 123 123432 1234 234...

sa composition est souvent parfaite et tellement limpide... Cette musique a été le renouveau de la musique classique et de la musique experimentale. Ils furent peu nombreux les Young les Riley les Reich, à aller au delà des notes écrites et jouées,et encore moins présents les Nyman, les Shore(et encore),à offrir leur vision au cinéma et vice versa... mecanicule french musician

I don't mind that you decided to write a description of his style... but why did you do it in French on the English talk page? --Thaddius 16:05, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] selected discography updates

I cleaned up and added quite a few things to the discography today. I suppose we could go for a more "complete" discography, but that would be huge and is available several other places online... --Funks 21:55, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

I noticed - thanks. I reckon edited highlights and whatever anyone feels passionate enough about to add is the best way to let things go. Nice to meet a fellow fan. SophiaGilraen of Dorthonion 07:40, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] References

I think it's a bit ridiculous to have an "unreferenced" template at the top of this article, as it clearly has perfectly good references. No, they're not inline, but it is referenced, and is far far better referenced than the vast majority of articles on Wikipedia. I wonder why someone would stick that template on top of the article without even requesting inlines on the talk page? In other circumstances I've only seen inlines requested for disputed statements (if you've have inlines for every accepted fact about someone it's really just cite-cruft, and not consistent with academic practice), and when something is up for FA status. So I guess what I'm trying to say is: WTF? Mak (talk) 16:34, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Nothing in this article is cited and thus none of it is "referenced". Please see Wikipedia:Citing sources. Hyacinth 05:14, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
If I still had my Grove subscription I would already have added inlines. :( Is there anything specific that needs to be referenced? Because for a well-known figure there's only so much that needs to have inline citations. And, no, no inlines does not = unreferenced, it equals not as well referenced, and labeling the references as Other Reading or whatever doesn't change that. I understand that this article doesn't follow best practice, and I don't have a problem with wanting it to be improved. However, it doesn't follow worst practice either, since it is referenced. Would you say Alessandro nelle Indie is unreferenced? Perhaps I should throw in some inlines there, in order avoid a disagreeement such as this in the future. Mak (talk) 15:10, 19 June 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Rating

Giving this a label "B" rating (see top). It is well past a "start" article but has a ways to go.

[edit] Merge sections

What's the purpose of having seperate "Works" and " Selected discography" sections? Shouldn't the latter be merged into the former? Dar-Ape 19:55, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

This page is getting a little long, so unless someone objects, I am going to merge Glass' "works" and "selected discography" sections and then move them to a new page, analogous to List of compositions by Johann Sebastian Bach. Dar-Ape 03:41, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
Note: I have implemented both my suggestions. Dar-Ape 04:38, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Oddly written sentence

From Philip Glass#New Directions: Symphonies, Chamber Operas and Concerti:

The trend of juxtaposing the two idioms which started with the Etudes for Piano and Les Enfants Terribles, and also surfaced to some extent in a score for Godfrey Reggio's Naqoyqatsi (2002), in the Chamber Opera The Sound of a Voice (2003), to a lesser extent in the series of Concertos since 2000 (with mixed results), and in three symphonies which are centered on the interplay of either vocalist or chorus and orchestra.

I don't think there's a verb there, and I don't know what/where it should be... --zenohockey 22:31, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

I fixed the grammar so now "surfaced" is the verb, but it is still a bit awkward and could be rewritten more. Thanks for catching this, Dar-Ape 00:25, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Philip Glass biography - inaccuracy

Hi -

I'm not a contributor to Wikipedia, but I wanted you to know about this error so you can correct it.

I'm a journalist and this week I interviewed Philip Glass.

Wikipedia's biography states that he is a Buddhist and I mentioned this. He is not, he assured me, nor has he ever been. Of course, he has studied Buddhism and supports the Tibetan cause, and this has led many people believe he has embraced Buddhism, so it's an understandable mistake. But no, he isn't a Buddhist.

Hope this is helpful.

Andrew Burnet80.41.236.198 14:08, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

This is a bit late, but for the record, I excised the disputed material shortly after Andrew pointed it out. Rmannion 04:30, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

This sounds an appropriate excision, but for the record, what precisely is the distinction here (between "studying" and "embracing")? I bring this up because there is some confusion about Leonard Cohen's standing in respect to Buddhism as well. If someone tells me he is an Episcopalian, for example, I usually take that to mean that he was brought up as an Episcopalian, that he attended an Episcopalian church regularly with his parents as a child. I have no idea what sort of religious upbringing Glass had, but I have read he comes from a Jewish heritage (as does Leonard Cohen), and I'd guess he was not brought up as a Buddhist (as Leonard Cohen was not).TheScotch 08:35, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Influences and connections

Re: "Early admirers included musicians Brian Eno and David Bowie, who acknowledged the influence of Glass's minimalist style.":

I've three concerns here.

1) The first has to do with the title of this section. I would take influence, singular, to mean the effect Glass has had on others and "influences", plural, to mean the effect others have had on Glass. In the sentence I've quoted above we're clearly talking about influence, not "influences". "Connections" would seem to comprise both influence and "influences", making "influences" redundant. I think a title such as "Antecedents and Influence" would be better.

2) The second has to do with perspective. Relatively minor "connections" are mentioned here while the main and most obvious connection is completely neglected. No mention is made here of Lamont Young, Terry Riley, and Steve Reich, although the Steve Reich article makes a particular point of this lineage. The discrepancy may have simply to do with different editors working on the respective articles or may have to do with some sort of perceived obeisance to Glass's putative wishes, considering that, as Steve Reich has pointedly remarked, of the four composers in question only Glass has failed to acknowledge the lineage. Terry Riley worked with Lamont Young and has always acknowledged Young's influence. Steve Reich worked with Terry Riley and belatedly came to acknowledge Riley's influence. Philip Glass worked with Steve Reich as an early member of Reich's ensemble (and was a fellow student with him at Julliard) but has never (so far as I know) acknowledged Reich's influence--although everyone else, except wikipedia apparently, has always remarked about it. TheScotch 09:05, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

3) The third is more particular. I don't think the "early" jibes well with lumping Brian Eno and Glass together in the passage I've quoted, considering that the two didn't work together until Glass had already had enormous mainstream success with Einstein on the Beach.TheScotch 09:05, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] citations needed

I added a template tag for the claim that the Composer's Notes documentary was released on DVD in 2005. The title is nowhere to be found via searching online vendors. That wouldn't account for private release, but the current wording implies a commercial product was available as of that date.

I also added a tag for the use of the word "appearance" on South Park. It's more likely that the show included a spoof of Glass, and I can't verify that Glass voiced himself for the episode by way of a Google search. If it *is* just a spoof, the wording needs to be changed. —scarecroe 05:09, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] New York and Nova Scotia

Which one?Lehi 04:53, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Other appearances

Is it worth mentioning the usage of his music in other media - adverts/computer games (he features in GTAIV, for instance)? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Duncan Burnside (talk • contribs) 00:51, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Infobox

Per Wikipedia:WikiProject_Composers#Lead_section and WP:WPO#Infoboxes, consensus exists not to include an infobox opera/composer pages such as this one, unless a contrary consensus exists with respect to the individual article. No such contrary consensus exists here. Fireplace 21:47, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

I have reverted again. The infobox issue should be resolved centrally edit warring to restore it verges on WP:POINT. Eusebeus 22:29, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
I am in agreement with Fireplace and Eusebeus. This page should not be subject to WP:POINT attacks. The same thing applies to Steve Reich and Michael Nyman. --Kleinzach 03:56, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
Sigh, I guess because of the POINTs, we're going to have to go through this everywhere... (anti-infobox Myke) -- --Myke Cuthbert 16:47, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
Hello. I do not understand the controversy. Why we can not use something like this as infobox?
Philip Glass

Background information
Born January 31, 1937 (1937-01-31) (age 71)
Baltimore, United States
Genre(s) Minimalist,
Classical,
Contemporary classical,
Ambient
Occupation(s) Composer
Years active 1956-present

--Mattman13 (talk) 16:16, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

I also don't understand why we can't have an infobox on here. I was just about to add one (as I recently did for Leonard Bernstein) -- why can't we have one? -- Hugh 06:46, 30 March 2008 (UTC)