Talk:Philadelphia Experiment

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Archive 1

Contents

[edit] Where's the "criticism" section?

The Philadelphia Experiment is a mere exaggeration of Degaussing. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Degaussing

Degaussing did take place on this particular ship. It did make the ship invisible, but not to radar or to the eye, but to MAGNETIC MINES.

This, by the way, is the Navy's explanation as to how this conspiracy came to be. There should be mention of it in the page. 69.111.19.31 (talk) 22:00, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

Yep, it's Hollywood mangling science via a filter of practical jokes and cheap fiction. Interesting in it's own way. Hakluyt bean (talk) 22:14, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Changes in line with recommendations below

Some significant changes to the text in response to the concerns highlighted below: general reorganisation/restructuring + corrections to grammar and punctuation. Also, rewording of some of the prose to bring it in line with more of a "peer review" protocol and quality. I've left the basic informative elements and the fundamental foci of the discussions intact (as I'm very much a newcomer to this topic as a whole). The story-telling elements which some may argue to be long-winded, I've left intact for various reasons. Apologise sincerely if I've stepped on anyone's toes; please raise any new concerns you have in this paragraph. Monitor712

[edit] Horrible layout and style of writing

I was just reading through this out of interest and I've noticed more spelling mistakes, grammatical mistakes, and outright back and forth than I have time to fix. This article really needs taking down and rewriting by one person objectively - the information is there, the structure isn't. To describe 'back and forth' a touch more, it seems like there are people fighting over this being factual and this being a nutters conspiracy theory; to put it bluntly it should be neither and probably read more like a story ('it is said the ship went bye bye'), if anything, with facts clearly outlined as such ('this man said this') and bickering over 'allegedly' and 'unproved to be false' be kept to a minimum. This is a story for all purposes until proven otherwise, this isn't the legal system. And quickly to note my bias for the above comments; I personally think there is a bit of truth to all things like this and I wouldn’t put it past the navy to at least be interested in a project like that – though if it was that the ship simply sailed up a canal or that it did in fact disappear is beyond my knowledge and I don’t expect to find out. -- eps 0204, 03/08/06 (UTC)

WRT to style it should probably be mentioned that nowhere in the summary paragraphs it says what the 'experiment' was about. It can be inferred that it was tried to render a ship invisible, but it is not stated explicitly. Eventhough this is consistent with the coherency of the theory outlined, it does not make a good article. --84.150.103.233 03:41, 8 January 2007 (UTC)


"Through a special application of the theory, it was thought possible, with specialized equipment and sufficient energy, to bend light around an object in such a way as to render it essentially invisible to observers. (Imagine a straw in a glass of water.)"

This should be clarified. What is the connection between the imaginary straw and what is presumed to have happend during the Philly Experiment? Straws don't become invisible, and while light does strange things as it travels through the fluid medium in the glass (one might also imagine boat oars in the water), that's not really the issue with the Experiment either. C d h 05:08, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Thin Air = fiction?

I spotted an update on this [1] - the authors of Thin Air have now admitted that their work is fiction. This leaves to leave people like Al Bielek hanging as they claim to have tracked down and talked to people now revealed not to exist. The site linked to [2] has been picking apart the various related threads (tracking down crews of vessels, etc.) and the whole thing looks to be either made up or the product of fantasy prone individuals who seem to actually seem to believe what they are saying. I'll leave it to someone else to work out how to incorporate this information into the entry (and possibly creating the Al Bielek entry to outline what we know about him. (Emperor 15:41, 18 March 2006 (UTC))

[edit] Fiction or Non?

Hi, I attempting to write a research paper for college on this very controversial subject. I read "The Philadelphia Experiment: Project Invisibility" by William L. Moore in consultation with Charles Berlitz. Although this book is obviously more sided with the idea that this experiment really did occur, it also seems to have very specific information that would be difficult to fabricate. My question is this: How accurate is this information and how reliable are the sources? Is this something I can include as a resource for a paper or is it a bunch of made up junk? I am very interested to learn more on the subject. Any help would be greatly appreciated.--67.128.92.10 01:11, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

The consensus is that the information is not reliable, and much of it has been made up. Some of the people involved have been revealed to not have existed at all. Do you know that the information that is difficult to fabricate actually has corroborating evidence outside of the book? Image:Tycon.jpgCoyoty 17:58, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
I havn't read the book but take a look in "Lost science" by Gerry Vassilatos

ISBN 0-932813-75-5 which have some good info about the prehistory for the experiment. --130.225.29.254 19:12, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

A quote from www.bielek-debunked.com...

It really is a pain in the ass for somebody who is looking for a tiny peace of background information in the internet, to dig through the thousands of Bielek-infected web pages. If Bielek was placed as major part of a dis-information campaign driven by US authorities, I have to admit, that this goal was achieved almost completely. Bielek and the Philadelphia Experiment have become one in the minds of most of the interested people. After you have seen what an intense and thorough investigation into Al Bielek`s claims has left of his story, you might ask yourself "Well, if Al Bielek made up all this, then the Philadelphia Experiment never happened, right?"

Wrong, because there is enough left beside Al Bielek and what ever he did to the whole field of the Philadelphia Experiment. What can be found (and was found and verified already) are manipulated records of the US Navy, the statements of an scientist, who was partially involved in the planning stage of the Philadelphia Experiment, the complete technical and military history of the degaussing technology, which led to the Philadelphia Experiment and at least one excellent documented scientific review of the technological background of the Philadelphia Experiment, which makes the Philadelphia Experiment a true and sound part of the scientific race between the Allied and the German scientists during WW II. So true and sound as the application of radar and the Manhattan Project were.

taken from http://www.bielek-debunked.com/Statements.html

--69.148.116.209 21:22, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Just an Anonymous User's View

This is freaking scary. FUSED to the deck? Fused? Mental illness? Teleportation? By god... 199.126.134.144 07:08, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Scary? No. Absurd? Yes. I'm surprised this has even been, at any stage, taken seriously.
This is the best science fiction story ever. Elements of the story were borrowed by the creators of Delta Green, a Cthulhu-meets-X-Files RPG. It's always scary when you have a story firmly set in reality with hard-headed and realistic people who are then presented with evidence that frankly violates every law of nature that they ever thought existed. Sure, in our reality, most of this evidence ranges from sketchy to outright forgeries. In a story, we can say it's rock-solid. So oh, crap, what does that mean? Where do we go from here? That's what makes these kinds of stories so much fun! --Gmuir 18:08, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
We are living in an era of both reality and fiction. Philadelphia experiment, do we have enough evidents that it never happened? Moon landing, do we have enough evidents that it indeed happened? There is one thing in common for the above two. Why didn't we do it again in so many years? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.85.172.60 (talk) 19:45, August 26, 2007 (UTC)
Yes, conspiracy theorist would have us believe that the probable moon landing never happened and the improbable space warping ship did.Dkriegls 06:09, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
Sigh, that was a useless comment taking up useless page space and bandwidth. SorryDkriegls 06:10, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] EM radiation, quantum theory etc

Erm... The article is written from a POV that suggests that there is ABSOLUTELY no way of affecting EM radiation (i.e. light, radio...) by intense electric or magnetic fields, while that most certainly isn't so. Light IS an EM phenomenon and some of it's aspects (i.e. polarization) CAN be manipulated by magnetic and electric fields (Kerr effect, Faraday effect etc.). It may be a good idea to at least mention that. Also, the article suggests that the objective of the (rumored) Project Rainbow was to attain optical invisibility, while the widespread belief is that it was merely an accidental sideffect (the true objective being radar invisibility - i.e. something that might mesh well with the idea of repolarizing an incoming EM emission by a very strong magnetic field). -- Orcinus, 0:40, 19 Apr 2006 (UTC)

I agree with you Orcinus, the article is incorrect by implying that intense electric or magnetic fields can't bend light. The Quantum Field Theory provides that index of refraction can be changed by magnetism. (see, http://helios.gsfc.nasa.gov/qa_gp_elm.html#maglight). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.105.48.207 (talk)

Sorry, but these effects (Kerr & Faraday effects mainly, together with their quantum counterparts) only occur when light is propagating in media. An electromagnetic field as such can have no effect whatsoever on the propagation of light -- it can only affect the characteristics of the medium it propagates in, leading to extremely subtle effects. (Ok, for the physicists: this is not 100% correct as per General Relativity, the energy contained in a electromagnetic field does change the Riemann tensor and thus metrics, but if one did such an experiment near Philadelphia, long before detecting deflection of the rays of light, the whole city and a nice piece of the crust would be moving, right?).
Coming back to the point... not only there is no known technology that would allow doing anything like that. The concept is that every single experiment done on light and electromagnetism in history, the Maxwell theory of waves, quantum mechanics and in short all we know about the nature of light would have to be wrong if anything like that were true. I'm open to discussing this, sure... but I would need some evidence before throwing away a theory proven every day by my eyes, my binoculars, compasses, cameras, radars, radios, Wi-Fi cards and particle accelerators.
I forgot mentioning it - there is no need to mention the Quantum Field Theory. Kerr and Faraday effects are purely classical phenomena, known and well explained since a long time.
Paolo 21:48, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
Just wanted to point out that the atmosphere (aka "thin air") of our little planet is, in fact, a medium of propagation, and electromagnetic field effects can and do have a measurable effect on the propagation of light (such as the photoelectric effect), which is, itself, like gamma rays, UV, and microwaves, an electromagnetic wave form. Much the same as the crests and troughs in water waves, the oscillating electric and magnetic fields constitute an EM wave. The wavelengths of visible light range from 400 nm to 700 nm, and merely heating an object will force it to radiate EM waves, including visible light (eg. red hot, white hot, blue hot, etc).
There is also a quantum effect known as Delbrück scattering, a process where, for a short time and in the presence of a very strong EM field, the photon disintegrates into an electron and positron pair. The charged pair interacts with an EM wave and then recombines into the photon with a changed direction. Thus, the EM wave bends the light. A positron (an anti-electron) has the same mass and charge magnitude as an electron of ordinary matter but the anti-electron has a positive charge. It quickly reacts with an electron. The two annihilate each other and produce two or more photons in the observed cases. However, more probably the charged pair will annihilate into two or more photons—this process has been observed under extreme conditions—but, then, the light ray is not bent but rather split into several rays. fallout11 12:59 1 March 2007
I just realized I tried to address a red herring. The supposed goal of the Philadelphia Experiment was to make the ship invisible to RADAR. Radar waves are easily influenced by strong EM waves and fields. Active electronic jamming (see the wikipedia entry for radar jamming), the creation of radar interference by transmitting EM signals and/or altered feedback, uses this principle as a matter of functionality. Fallout11 15:17, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Urban legend or urban rumour?

Why did you change "urban legend" to "urban rumor"? "Urban legend" is the much-more common term. A Google check of "urban rumor" turned up 80 pages. "Urban rumour" turned up 20 more. "Urban legend" turned up 85,200. -- Zoe

[edit] Eldridge launch date

Eldridge's launch date seems to be disputed: "Some researchers say she was launched on 27 Aug. 1943, while others say it was 25 July[3]...According to the Greek records, the Eldridge was launched in June of 1943, not in July nor August. Her displacement was 1,240 ton standard and 1900 full load, a discrepancy of 660 tons[4]"

Those 2 links are broken. I'm not sure if a geocities page is 100% reliable. Is there a site from the greek navy itself? Meanwhile, this site[5] lists the Eldridge as being launched in July 1943, in sequence with other ships of its class. Totnesmartin 21:11, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
Here's the greek navy site [6] which says the ship was launched in 1944. Just t. Totnesmartin 21:48, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
And here's the dockyard owners' site [7]. Wow, the cover-up is everywhere! Totnesmartin 22:03, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] POV

Rewrote the entire page due to some inaccuracies (such as Jessup's attribution of "Mr. B" and "Jemi") and a general mocking POV. Sure, it's pure nonsense, but we still have to hold to NPOV. Scooter 09:19, 4 Jan 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Carl Allen

All the "Carl Allen" links in this page were linking to a Carl Allen who is a US jazz drummer born in 1961. Since Carl Meredith Allen (in this article) was involved in incidents taking place in 1957, he can't be the same guy. I'll just add a disambiguation note to the Carl Allen article, so people don't get confused. --AaronW 20:58, 6 May 2004 (UTC)

Appreciate it; thank you. - Scooter 06:09, 26 Aug 2004 (UTC)

[edit] In Video Games

What made me read the article is because I'm a huge fan of Red Alert. Don't you think mirage tanks were also derived from this experiment. I mean the tanks become camoflauged by its ability to copy objects like trees with the use of light. This was mentioned in the allied campaign where the allied forces are instructed to protect Einstein's lab to the success of the Chronosphere project.

In response to the above: What any of us think does not make it factual. To the Video Games section: The section states that the Chronosphere kills all organical material. This should be edited to something along the lines of "kills all passengers in an APC" (and possibly Chinook) as the drivers of those vehicles survive. "The experiment led to two devices, based on its two variations." Three actually, the Phase Tank in Red Alert and the Stealth Tanks in Tiberium Dawn/Sun. Does the Red Alert 2 article need to be that detailed? I should at least not include any spoilers. MCV 20:47, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

Is the Philadelphia the ship on the Playstation 2 game Splashdown 2, the level set in Bermuda? Norgy (talk) 16:08, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Back in reality...

The story is fascinating and I admit that I would like to believe it just because of how cool it would be. But all verifiable evidence seems to point to this story being totally false. However, in more recent experiments, which are verified, it looks as if the U.S. Government is tinkering with a similar theory as is allegedly tested in the Philadelphia Experiment: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/5016068.stm

It might be something worth adding to the article, with the proper notation that the two are completely unrelated except for in general principle. Joe 23:07, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

The two would be "completely unrelated" only if the Philadelphia Experiment were fiction. If it really happened, the Navy would know about it (at high levels) and the current experiments would be simply a continuation.


Please, read my post on the next thread: there is no connection whatsoever between the principles behind the alleged Philadelphia experiment and the principles behind the "cloaking device" discussed in the BBC article.
Paolo 21:34, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

(possibly a new section?) I have a few thoughts about the big bang theory and dark matter. They are only hypothesis, perhaps only speculation, and chances of these ideas being correct are low.

During the earliest stages of the big bang, the universe expanded faster than the speed of light, and this period is called inflation, right? When did it end? Was it when photon could exist? After all, if the limitation on speed is the speed of light (photons), this would not apply if conditions in the universe do not permit photons to exist, right? So the universes initial energy and matter could have spread out pretty far, right?

Current estimates of the size and mass of the universe are based on how far we can see, right? What if the universe, because of the faster than light inflation, is spread out beyond where we can see? Of course, the mass of the universe would be proportionally increased (or maybe not as much). Since we think we can only see 20% of the mass of the universe, for a first approximation lets say the universe was this mass, but the 80% we cannot see is simply beyond viewing range. Due to the early faster than light inflation, possibly beyond viewable range. This matter is so far away that its light can never reach us. Remember the 2.7K infared readings from the big bang date from when photons could be emitted. So this energy and matter in those parts of the universe cannot be detect by photon, because they could not yet exist. How do this help us? This is the missing dark matter that is pulling our portion of the universe apart. It is just ordinary matter beyond our viewing (viewable) range. How would we try to model this? Model 1: A nested set of ballons blowing up, speeds in reference to the mythical center point. A 1 foot ballon at 50% the speed of light inside a 10 foot weather balloon at 90% the speed of light inside a 100 foot hot air ballon at 130% the speed of light. But any galaxy at any particular layer can only see to nearby sections of the next inner and outer layers, and each galaxy thinks that is the limits of the universe, and nothing can go faster than the speed of light. Model 2: think of this as 1 inch balloons expanding to 1 foot balloons held snugly together in a net. From a particular galaxy, they can only see from the center of a balloon to the outside of the balloon, where speeds approach the speed of light. All matter with viewable range within the bubbles obeys the speed of light, yet if you try to compare to a bubble 5 bubbles over it is travelling 4 times the speed of light compared to you.

Have you ever heard of the Pauli (?) exclusion principle? This is a principle (eg rule) that says 2 particles cannot occupy the same place at the same time Eg, in a Neon atom, there can be 1 electron in the 1st spherical shell with a clockwise spin, and 1 in an anti-clockwise spin. Same with the 2nd spherical shell and the 3 p-orbits. The three different orbits are really best described as an energy wave with the Schrodinger (sp?) equations. The subatomic speeds are so fast and the distances so tiny and the Hisenburg uncertainy constant so large in comparison that each electron could be at any point in the orbit that any attempt to locate the electron does not change the probability of it being in any particular location and must be considered a wave. How strong a wave is this? You cannot push two atoms together and make the orbits overlap, instead the two atoms will share the electron and form a chemical bond. You link up a bunch of Carbon atoms in a tetrahedral structure, we call those diamonds. And so these electron waves around a nucleus form what are call hard surfaces. To overide this wave, you have to pile on about 10% of the sun's mass before you can start to force a few electons into the nucleus and form H2 then He4, etc. in nuclear fusion. If you pile up about 4 sun's mass and wait a few billion years for the energy to be released and enough iron to be formed, a collapse of the center portion of the start will all collapse into one huge atom, a neutron star.

This exceeding the speed of light when photons cannot be present does present another idea too. Photons, in the waveform (vs particle) consideration also have magnetic and electrical characteristic. This is how generators, motors, electromagnets, and other electronic devices work. What would happen if a strong magnectic or electric field where set up around an object? So strong that photons inside the field cannot get out and photons outside cannot get in? Well, would your bubble of space be free to travel? Since photons inside and outside cannot interact relative speeds can no longer be compared. If you were to apply a slight directional force, you might be transported hundreds of miles away, or to another star system, or galaxy. We really don't have a theory on what keeps the arrow of time proceding forward. If you cut off a bubble of space away from the rest of the with such a strong field, when it re-intergrates it might possible be forward or backward in time. I have no possible idea about what force could propel you forward or backward in time. Another possible effect would be to override the Exclusion principle. Eg the force that keeps atoms apart might be suppressed enough that electron orbits around can overlap. You would have to design the field so that you have a clean bubble around the object, and not let the field inside be strong enough to supress the exclusion principle. If you did, a person in such a field might put thier hand into a suddenly soft wall, or sink into a sponge that used to be a floor. Scary aint it? Also sounds just like the Philadelphia experiment. Could also explain Star trek warp fields and transporter beams and transporter accidents.

User:MASchwab 12:48, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
You realize, of course, that Star Trek almost always has the source for its stories in current sociological situations and the human condition, rather than hard science? Warp speed without the effects of time dilation is a way to allow the crew to visit multiple worlds and explore what it means to be alive, not because it was based on any actual scientific theory. Current studies might exist that study if warp drive is at all conceptually feasible, but Star Trek writers had it first, not the other way around. On an somewhat random note, I think the way in which the article describes it as a hoax is what needs to be fixed, rather than proclaiming it to be so; simply put, if the Eldredge was not even stationed in Philadelphia on the day (or even year) in question, it's pretty safe to say that the Berlitz claim is not true. On the other hand, I am completely for bringing up the idea that the whole story actually happened, but on undisprovable notions of the ship having a different name, being stationed somewhere else, and nearly everyone involved (other than Einstein, harbinger of the theories themselves) having completely different names....IF that were found and referenced from a notable source...and this, from a rather extreme WP:Para member. --Chr.K. 14:07, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] New experiments enable 'cloaking' devices

This is possibly related to this issue: Sorry that I dont have time to write anything up, but this news story suggests that at least invisibility (radar AND vision) may be possible.

Yahoo! News

Also here...

Baltimore Sun website

Sorry, but this story has nothing to do with the supposed Philadelphia Experiment. The cloaking technique described in the above mentioned articles involves wrapping an object in a sheet of other materials that would guide light around it - which does not seem to be the thing described in the Philadelphia Experiment, right?
Just to summarize, This is a really incredible feat in terms of materials engineering, but there is no new physics behind it al all: fiber optic wires work exactly this way, just as any pair of glasses or any lens of any kind.
Paolo 21:31, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
this says that "invisibility" would be very difficult to do, even today. In 1943 it would have been impossible. Totnesmartin 22:13, 1 March 2007 (UTC)


Guys, I think you'll find that this technology employs materials either structured on a nanoscopic level (in similar principle to fibre optics) or by using materials with negative refractive indexes. This has nothing at all to do with warping space-time in funky ways with magnets. Sorry. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 87.194.79.169 (talk) 15:17, 29 March 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Tone of first section

This article is messy in many ways, but the worst section is the first. It describes the standard story relating to the experiment, but is unclear about what is real or not. As far as I can tell from the article as a whole, none of this story is considered true by the Navy, or any other mainstream source. The section should read something along the lines of: "Most accounts of the experiment claim that..." It would be nice if those accounts could be referenced. Later sections could explain objections to this story (eg. scientific problems, ship's records, crew testimony, etc.). Finally, the "In Popular Culture" section. If there are no valid objections, I will go ahead and change the first section in a few days. Makerowner 21:30, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Removed passage without citation.

The following passage was uncited for two months. I removed it.

Present day conspiracy proponents propose[citation needed] that the generators rigged to the ship may not have been designed to warp space/time. Instead they may have been deployed to heat up the air and water around the ship, creating an artificial mirage, thereby rendering the ship “invisible” to the human eye. This would still leave visible the ship's wake, in addition to the greenish colored fog described in some accounts.

Phiwum 12:42, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Total Nonsense

"Albert Einstein never fully developed his Unified Field Theory. The Unified Field Theory, now called M-Theory has only recently come forth from the scientific community. Incidentally, M-Theory resolves the four energy forces (The Strong Nuclear Force or Strong Interaction and Weak Nuclear force or Weak Interaction, Gravity and Electromagnetism) through the incorporation of 11 spacial dimensions and multiple universes. M-Theory, quantum mechanics and relativity all allow for many of the things the Philadelphia Experiment are thought to possibly be. While perhaps extremely unlikely, nothing attributed to the Philadelphia Experiment is outlawed by our most current understanding of the laws of physics."

This is total nonsense. M-theory is not "the unified field theory" by any means. It does not "resolve the four energy forces..." in any physically meaningful way - aside from the fact that "energy forces" sounds... absurd. This should be removed.

My god, this article. Can someone with proper dopamine levels fix this page? Myrkkyhammas 08:09, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Fix it? How about delete it? While fun to listen to the Al Bielek interview on [8]Coast to Coast AM (now a fundraiser for Al B. is being waged,)[9] listening to Al's later interviews on the radio, he said he was sent back and forward in time and had his memory erased, his ID changed, and now he's so broke spinning his story Coast to Coast has resorted to donating money for him by way of new subscriptions to After Dark (the coast "newsletter"). I don't doubt there have been attempts at invisibility but this entire story, though fun to imagine, really isn't encyclopedia material. Kidshare 06:48, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Delete it, for heavens sake. It was a nice wacky idea for a movie and a couple of dodgie books, but anyone with even the slightest understanding of science should be able too see this is all crap. Unified field theory is nice but there's no way it can do that, especially back in the 40's. Bite the bullet and delete it. Spgoo1 13:13, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Once something has established notability, it does not lose that notability later. It does not degrade over time. It's total nonsense, but notably entertaining nonsense, so it can't be deleted. • Lawrence Cohen 13:11, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

This story, nonsense or otherwise, is a fixture of latter American history. It would be irresponsible to delete it merely because it's made up. It should be noted that Big Foot and Nessie aren't very grounded in reality either. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.203.30.141 (talk) 00:51, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

That's a fair point. Where would American history be without the parts that are made up... But seriously, I think the article should stay; it's a kind of public service. I like the first paragraph atm eg "the story is widely regarded as a hoax". That's fairly clear. Hakluyt bean (talk) 22:33, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Possible copywrite issues

See World Mystery The World Mystery page is either taken from a previous version of this article, or this article is taken from them. From what I've seen in the article history it is more likely the former. Scottanon 21:49, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The Neutrality of The Article is disputed

Ya think??

Where to begin..... articles such as this biased myopic rant actually does more to fuel the lunatic fringe than anything else. If one is to write an encyclopedic article one does not use phrases as "widely regarded as a hoax," one also doesn't keep hammering home how the story is basically BS, and back it up with false information, which anyone with rudimentary knowledge of physics can prove as false. (not that I'm saying that Fallout11 and MASchwab aren't versed in the study of course)

It's pretty much a given that Al Bielek is a disinformationist ether a compensated one or just a run of the mill nut-job that Coast to Coast AM is so famous for spotlighting. Further; there has been a significant body of work that claims that the stories of fusing humans to decks and Time Warps are pretty much invention of the ONR. What many scientist and historians believe is that Project Rainbow, was about RADAR jamming, and was successful; but given the current events, and the treaties that the United States had with its Allies that stipulated that we share major technological discoveries; there was no way in hell they would share the fact that yes we can fit our ships and perhaps soon our Aircraft with a device that would make them Invisible to that generations RADAR especially with our pals the Russians. The propaganda or absurdities that the ONR put forward worked far beyond even the grandest desires of The U.S. government, it's like an old ex FBI agent once told me, scratch a Tale tale and you will nine times out of ten find a Government cover up. Or ...UFO's = Stealth Aircraft, Roswell=Spying on Russia, Project Rainbow= RADAR jamming, Camp Hero = LSD/Biological experiments on transient citizens.


Martinj63 23:51, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Um...

Slightly lacking in that fundamental aspect all good articles include... LEAD, anyone? Seegoon 03:28, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

The ship was fitted with with a large but simple electromagnet. It ran most of the length of the keel. The test was run before commisioning. The purpose of the experiment was to test large scale deflection of radio waves with an electromagnet field. If succesful, the result might have been possible "radar invisibility". The results were negative. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.62.23.202 (talk) 20:36, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] witness?

S. Berliner, III on his website http://home.att.net/~Berliner-Ultrasonics/dudgeon.html wrot:

I really should warn those with a serious interest in the Dudgeon automobile that there are many links out there to one Edward Dudgeon, who was in the U. S. Navy from 1942 through 1945, and who testified about the alleged disappearance of the destroyer USS Eldridge, DE 173, from Philadelphia harbor, due to mysterious devices brought on board under extreme security precautions, and the alleged disappearance of two sailors from a nearby tavern! New reference link (23 Oct 00). Oh yeah! Herr Gauss would turn over in his grave!

What do y'all think? Vampromero (talk) 01:16, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] isoluminace experiment?

what it there was some kind of a test invovlving isoluminance?CorvetteZ51 (talk) 12:21, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Reverted intro changes

I reverted the recent edit [10] to the introduction. It simply replaced a reasonably well sourced version with an (contradictory) unsourced claim. If you say that the Navy maintains a position, cite an official Navy document. I guess the article should be patrolled a bit... Averell (talk) 14:14, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] OCR Critical Thinking Unit 1 January 2008

Congratulations, this article, or parts of it, were included in the resource booklet from OCR's Critical Thinking Unit 1 exam on January 2008, as a source requiring a credibility assessment. Microchip 08 12:46, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Rewriting synopsis

I rewrote the synopsis in conditional in order to make clear that this refers to a hypothetical situations which may or may not have occurred. I don't know if I was truly successful, since I'm not a native speaker. However, it seems to me that this is a better way of describing it than simply stating everything as facts and then add an "alleged" in every second sentence. Averell (talk) 13:09, 9 June 2008 (UTC)