Talk:Phil Spector

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[edit] Oh I Wish

Oh I wish contributors had to pass a basic literacy test before being allowed to 'wiki' here. The temptation to go in every time and clean up this crap is nigh on irresistible but it's getting easier as time goes on because the quality of writing at Wikipedia by these drooling tards is so universally deplorable. More and more it's looking like Wikipedia is no more than a haven for encyclopaedia writing wannabes. Reprehensible. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.5.4.54 (talk) 12:28, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

It would have been nice to read some examples from this page on Spector--this "crap" you kvetch about. If, as you say, the temptation to clean it up is "nigh on irresistible" (which I assume you mean, nears on irrestible) then why do you then say "but it's getting easier as time goes on?" If the material is so delorable why are you drawn to it? You seem to have a lot of bitterness, and it is interesting that these "encyclopedia writing wannabes" concern you. Seems to be something that's on your mind a lot, huh? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sam Goldberg (talk • contribs) 03:07, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Spector's Early Life

On the entry page, there was a properly sourced sentence that stated that Spector said in an interview that his parents were first cousins, and that it may have had something to do with his mental problems over the years. Now that is gone. Was the published article that it quoted discredited? If so, I can understand removing the sentence - otherwise, that is a very poor edit because it is quite pertinent to the man's biography, this litigation notwithstanding.

[edit] Visible Disfiguration

A recent picture posted on MSNBC.com of Spector leaving the court house shows that he is disfigured on his entire left side. What happened? Also, there is discussion of a new spouse. Are there any details?

He's not disfigured... just a bad picture. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.48.83.126 (talk) 13:23, 21 March 2007 (UTC).


[edit] Judaism

Why is "Jewish" relevant here? Sfahey 22:40, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

Some people might want to know what ethnic background he has. User:George
I agree, therefore I will put it back in there. Garion96 14:17, 15 September 2005 (UTC)

Hmm, just looked in the history and saw that it was already a bunch of times removed and put back. Can we vote on this or something? Garion96 14:30, 15 September 2005 (UTC)

religious designations are usually included when they appear to have altered the person's career in other than the usual ways in which religion might. for example, sandy koufax's being victimized by anti-semitism and controversially not pitching on yom kippur. i didn't see the relevance in this article. Sfahey 16:40, 16 September 2005 (UTC)
But being jewish is not only a matter of religion, it's also a different culture in many aspects. It made him a different person than he probably would be if he came from a family if irish immigrants. Perhaps it's visible in his work, perhaps not. It's also interesting from the fact that many people in the entertainment industry were (are?) jews. There even was an expo about that in the jewish museum (New York) Garion96 01:53, 17 September 2005 (UTC)
I don't think anybody is suggesting that a biographical article shouldn't include information on the person's ethnic background, just that it shouldn't be part of the primary description of the person in the lead unless, as Sfahey suggests, it is a key aspect of their life and work. Jgm 02:01, 17 September 2005 (UTC)
I agree, but in this article it's not mentioned in the lead. Garion96 11:44, 17 September 2005 (UTC)
Apparently it got taken out again; I just put it back again. This ongoing attempt to omit Spector's ethnic background is bizarre. Bobby P. Smith Sr. Jr. 13:01, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
Citing someones ancestral background is common in biographies here at Wikipedia. It should stay in. Jtpaladin 14:43, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

WP:BLP#Use_of_categories is extremely clear; Category tags regarding religious beliefs and sexual preference should not be used unless two criteria are met:

  • The subject publicly self-identifies with the belief or preference in question
  • The subject's beliefs or sexual preferences are relevant to the subject's notable activities or public life

I see no evidence of the former or the latter. WP:BLP is an extremely serious policy, and one can be easily blocked for ignoring it. Until both conditions above are satisfied, the category must go. Jayjg (talk) 03:56, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

First, contrary to your comment, there is no "category" on Mr. Spector's religious beliefs. There is a one line sentence about his ancestry. Second, you are misunderstanding WP:BLP. You are using one section of WP:BLP in a twisted fashion to deny that Mr. Spector was born into a Jewish family. This is a an aspect of his biography since as you well know, being Jewish is not just a religious affiliation but can also be a racial one as well. As is very clear, this article does not discuss his "religious beliefs". This complies with WP:BLP and WP:VERIFY. Jtpaladin 15:27, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

I think it is interesting that he was Jewish, and he produced a best-selling Christmas album. David Marcus

[edit] Citation for Jewishness

Sorry, I'm not up on citation procedure, and the WP:CITE is none too clear about the basic aspects. Anyway, is the external link I provided (to an article that mentions his being Jewish) good enough? If not, how can I properly cite the biography that also mentions this fact? Bobby P. Smith Sr. Jr. 13:47, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Joe Meek

"immensely gifted" - ? I think the most compelling aspect of Meek's story is the way he overcame adversity and applied his creative mind to a field of endeavor that he wasn't exactly, y'know, "born to". I wouldn't say he was immensely gifted. Anyone dispute this? Bobby P. Smith Sr. Jr. 13:01, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

I would say Spector is gifted. First of all, he displayed his creativity early in his life. In High School he was already writing songs and by that time had discovered his perfect pitch. Before he was 20 he had an album that made him a million dollars. This was during the 1950s, and there was a lot of competition for the target audience he knew how to market to. Moreover, he crafted his songs in an innovative style. That style would be honed for decades and perfected through pioneering techniques imitated today. He was far ahead of his time in how he wanted songs to sound and how the studio would be used by rock musicians. There's not much in rock and roll that doesn't have his fingerprint on it in terms of production. Because you think he wasn't "born to" this field and he still succeeded makes it more of a feat, one that most would recognize as a result of genius.Sam Goldberg 03:19, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Merge

Discussion moved here from Talk:Wall of Sound#Merge with Phil Spector?. Hyacinth 12:03, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

I oppose a merge with Phil Spector. This article is far too long to be a stub. Hyacinth 09:59, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

seconded. imo, 'wall of sound' has become more a generic term for a certain element of audio production that one can hear in many tracks from various genres these days, and i think there should be more references to later uses of the technique referenced on this article --MilkMiruku 10:06, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

I think a merge sounds like a good idea. The Wall of Sound article is not all that long, and some of it is reptitious with the Spector article. The quote and other elements could easily be incorporated, as well as more examples if needed (I think there are enough to make the point). The chances the "Wall" article itself could expand significantly are pretty slim. One could include clarifications to the use of the term if needed, but the Spector context is the original and most common use of the phrase (AKAIK), and the others could be considered derivations.

Please Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages. Thanks. Hyacinth 08:25, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
The Phil Spector article only contains a paragraph about the technique (the first paragraph in Phil Spector#The Wall of Sound). Hyacinth 11:21, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

A merge is a bad idea, Spector's technique is as seperate from Spector as the lightbulb is from Edison. I vote no on a merge.

Please post new messages at the bottom of a discussion, or indent (using a colon at the beginning of the line) so as to indicate your reply's place in the flow. Also, please sign your posts on talk pages. Thanks. Hyacinth 13:37, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

I also oppose. I think the wall of sound is important enough to warrant it's own article. Garion96 (talk) 17:30, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

Since only one person so far was in favor of the merge, I decided to remove the tags. Garion96 (talk) 02:13, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Beatles' miscellanea

Check The Beatles' miscellanea to see if there is anything in it you can use. A lot of 'miscellanea' needs to be trimmed (as linked articles are improved) so please feel free to use anything before certain sections get zapped into the ether... ThE bEaTLeS aka andreasegde 16:30, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Euphemism-Alarm

Phil Spector's son didn't pass away, he died. There's no problem with writing that, is there?

[edit] Associated acts

Is it really necessary to have that many people in the list? Starsailor and Ben E. King are the biggest offenders. Gene wrote and had songs produced by Spector but probably should not be there either. -LoserTalent 05:55, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

I understand where you are coming from - there are ALOT of acts. But, Spector was "Associated" with these artists. Besides 'Stand By Me', the song 'Spanish Harlem' is King's biggest hit and Spector is credited as co-writer and producer on the single (despite questions regarding his alleged involvement with the song). Also, Spector did produce Starsailors second biggest hit and is credited as co-producer on their highest charting album. I agree with you that it is a fuzzy area because he worked with SO many artists - but, as mentioned earlier, the list is "Associated" artists, and Spector does have valid association with them all. -Hellobeatle 03:39, 29 June 2007 (EST) ... also, regarding Gene Pitney: Spector and Pitney were VERY much affiliated - Spector produced his highest chart placing single and the two of them have worked with The Rolling Stones as a credited duo on an earlier performance, very much making them "Associated".

[edit] Current Event?

Since when can a person be tagged as a current event? If so, shouldn't every biography of a living person be labeled as such? 128.36.62.212 20:50, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Only those who are currently at trial, or some similar current event. It's a current event as new information keeps coming out because of this trial. Hope that helps. - Jeeny Talk 21:15, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Who the hell is Robert Tirado?

In the influence section there's a reference to Spector asking some kid to borrow his parent's cuban recods, and how this later affected the kid's life in that he got enmeshed in the music industry. Well, I've never heard of Robert Tirado before, a google search doesn't turn up anything, and even if Robert Tirado is "enmeshed" in the music scene, it's not really relevant until he does something that garners some notoriety.

[edit] Hargo - "Crying For John Lennon"

I heard that Spector never got around to re-making 'Crying For John Lennon' because the murder trial came up. If the song exists, is it available legally or illegally? -Hellobeatle 13:09, 16 August 2007 (EST)

[edit] Spanish Harlem

Anyone have the date and chart placement of 'Spanish Harlem' by Ben E. King. Spector himself admits that his input in the song was overexaggerated, but he is listed as the producer and co-writer. -Hellobeatle 10:56, 12 September 2007 (EST)

Where is Spector listed as producer of this record? All sources I've ever seen (not to mention the record itself) list Jerry Leiber and Mike Stoller as producers. Spector's only involvement was that he co-wrote the song with Stoller. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.163.171.172 (talk) 18:00, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Just refering to an article by Ben E King which he said that Spector did 5% of the production - Leiber and Stoller left an unfinished portion to Spector to add hooks and whatnot. I just looked at the 45 though and he is not listed as producer. -Hellobeatle 13:57, 17 September 2007 (EST) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hellobeatle (talk • contribs)

[edit] Image copyright problem with Image:Beatles-singles-the-long-and-winding-road-1.jpg

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