Talk:Phalaenopsis

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    [edit] Comments

    "Hemicr. or cham." on the species list - could this be explained, or removed! - MPF 7 July 2005 10:32 (UTC)

    These abbreviations refer to the terminology of particular lifeforms of plants :
    • hemicryptophyte (abbr.: hemicr.) : plants with herbaceous stems. These stems die off after the growing season, while the shoots survive at soil level (e.g. : Aster)
    • chamerophyte (abbr. cham.) : plants with herbaceous and/or woody stems, that persist for several years. Their buds are on soil level or just above; but never above 50 cm (e.g. : Alyssum).

    This terminology is to be found at World checklist of Monocotyledons - Kew JoJan 7 July 2005 13:25 (UTC)

    Thanks; maybe (since all seem to be the same in the genus) the terms could be moved from the species list to the paragraph describing the genus? - MPF 7 July 2005 14:16 (UTC)
    Done JoJan 7 July 2005 17:08 (UTC)

    [edit] a species?

    Hello! I took a lot of pictures from my home province in the Philippines. Many of the plants I could not name or classify. An example is here. I could not identify. but might very well me Phalaenopsis. There are more images in my user page. --Ate Pinay (talk•email) 15:54, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

    That is definitely a Phalaenopsis. But unless you know the pedigree of this particular plant, do not try to tag it with a species name or hybrid name. Just label it as an unknown variety of Phalaenopsis. --Michaelzheng 17:20, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

    [edit] Period of blooming

    Thanks for this interesting article. I note "They bloom in their full glory for several weeks. If kept in the home, they usually last two to three months, which is considered quite a long time." Our white Phal has been in bloom, in the bathroom, since July 2006! === Vernon White (talk) 12:10, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

    [edit] Phalaenopsis / etymology

    Dear Sirs,

    Subject: the Wikipedia entry in English of Phalaenopsis / Description

    It is stated in the above entry that the word "Phalaenopsis" originates from Greek words "phalaina" and "opsis" as is certainly true. But the meaning and translation of the word "phalaina" into "moth" caught my eye. You can easily verify in any good dictionary that "phalaina" means "whale" in English and this is so both in ancient and modern Greek language. Could you perhaps explain what has led to your kind of interpretation of this word? Helsinki, Finland June 4, 2007

    Mr. Antti Stenberg antti.stenberg@welho.com 82.181.115.37 06:00, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

    A quick search gave the following :
    • Merrian-Webster online : Etymology: New Latin, from Greek phalaina moth + -opsis [1]
    • Dictionary.com : [Origin: < NL (1825), equiv. to Gk phál(l)ain(a) moth + -opsis -opsis; reflecting the popular name moth orchid] [2]
    In wikipedia we only refer to existing and reliable sources. Doing otherwise would be contrary to the offical guidelines of Wikipedia:No original research. JoJan 09:15, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

    Dear Sirs,

    As to the semantics and translation of the greek word I refer to the dictionary of: A Lexicon Abridged from Liddel and Scott's Greek-English Lexicon Oxford at the Clarendon Press/Oxford University Press Impression of 1991 Printed in Great Britain

    which is largely accepted as an authoritative source of the vocabulary of classical Greek. I refer to my extract from a.m. dictionary: page 750, column II: quote falaina, he, a whale, Lat. balaena: hence of a devouring monster. enquote (he = the greek eta, the definite article) quote fallaina, he, = falaina. enquote If needed, I can give ref/s to a modern Greek dictionary with a similar content of the same.

    I dare to doubt the reliability of your a.m. reference and propose you consult a professional expert on Greek language. I myself am just a amateur of 30 years but have seen errors even in very goods dictionaries in etymologies and Greek words.

    Yours sincerely Antti Stenberg

    You're probably right, but I have no Greek dictionary at my disposal. The Latin word balaena, however, is used in the names of baleen whale families Balaenidae and Balaenopteridae. However, in 1825 when Carl Blume named the genus Phalaenopsis, he must have explained the etymology of the name of the genus in his "Bijdragen tot de Flora van Nederlandsch-Indië", issue 294. If there was a mistake, that's where it must have happened. And we must accept this, as Phalaenopsis is a valid publication under the rules of ICBN. And now we can hardly change the English common name "moth orchid" into "baleen whale orchid", can we ? But, if you want, you can add this confusion of terms into the article. JoJan 20:42, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
    Actually, this should first be checked in Stearn's Botanical Latin, not in a Greek dictionary, no matter how expert, as Botanical Latin, unlike the Classical Greek and Latin it is derived from, is a living language. So, if someone would reference Stearn's, as my copy is not handy, let's start there. KP Botany 20:55, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
    Like many early botanists Blume did not explain the etymology of the new name (for future reference, Tropicos now has links to scans of the original publications for many genera and species). But bear in mind that many botanical names are not directly derived so the literal translation from Greek or Latin is often interesting but not necessarily helpful. MrDarwin 13:19, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

    Phalaenoptilus also uses "phalaina" as in moth, as does Dendrobium phalaenopsis (in the latter case, the derivation isn't mentioned in the article; take my word for it.) These were named by Audobon and Lindley respectively, so we now have three botanists that think "phalaina" means "moth". I plugged "phalaina moth whale" into google, and came up with this rather unattractive page, which gives the following definition: "phalaina φαλαινα a whale; a moth". I don't think we have anything much to worry about here. Hesperian 00:41, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

    This interesting case has been discussed in Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Plants#Phalaenopsis / etymology. Conclusion : the word "Phalaena" had already been used in 1758 by Linnaeus to indicate one of the divisions of Lepidoptera, as indicated in the article old Linnaean taxonomic division. Blume must have followed Linnaeus in this respect. JoJan 14:22, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
    I agree with JoJan's assessment, although I've rewritten the text to (hopefully) clarify and streamline it a bit. "Phalaena" means moth, not literally, but because Linnaeus used it as a name for moths. Of course we still don't know why Linnaeus used "Phalaena" to refer to a group of moths, but that's another article entirely... MrDarwin 20:42, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

    [edit] photosynthetic?

    From the article: "Post-pollination changes in Phalaenopsis orchids - Phalaenopsis are not only outstanding in their beauty, but also unique in their photosynthetic mechanism. " This must be a mistake; it is not explained anyway - at least not very clearly. 82.92.245.109 (talk) 16:04, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

    I've given a bit more information + reference. JoJan (talk) 08:50, 14 April 2008 (UTC)