User talk:Peter Entwisle

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Contents

[edit] Welcome to Wikipedia

Welcome!

Hello, Peter Entwisle, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Again, welcome! 

You may also be interested in the Wikipedia:New Zealand Wikipedians' notice board.

Are you by any chance the person who has been adding information to the Dunedin article from an anonymous IP address prior to getting a user name? Whether you are or not, welcome. If you need anything of the working of Wikipedia explained, feel free to contact me on my user talk page. It's good to see someone here whom I know to be knowledgeable about Otago history and art! Grutness...wha? 12:44, 6 June 2006 (UTC) (you know me by my real name - James Dignan)

The message came through fine. I understand about being hesitant to give any contact details - if you want to keep a low profile on Wikipedia that's perfectly OK. I look forward to see your additions to articles and, as I said before, if you need any help then drop me a note on my talk page. Grutness...wha? 00:15, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Linking articles

One minor but important point - if you include mention of something in an article that either has or should have a Wikipedia article of its own, please put it in double square brackets [[like this]]. That will give a blue link to the article on that subject (if it exists) or a red link to indicate that an article is needed. I've added quite a few links to the information you've added to the Oamaru article, which should give you some idea of what I mean. Grutness...wha? 08:15, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

New articles that are written appear within minutes of them being saved - do you mean the article on William Tucker (settler)? If so it's already on Wikipedia, but it needs a few things like adding categories and links to it (I'll see what I can do to make it a more "Wikipedia-like" article). By the way, please send any messages to my User talk page, not my User page (click on the green "wha?" link in my signature) - that way I'm more likely to see them. Also, you can sign your posts with four tildes ~~~~, rather than writing out your name - that will provide an automatic link back to your page for any reply. Grutness...wha? 14:25, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
click the links in the "wikify" box! --Dweller 00:24, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Dear Peter - the main problem is that you indented the paragraphs. Doing that renders text in long lines within a pale blue box. I've removed the indentations and it looks ar more like a "real" Wikiepedia article now. You're right, the instructions aren't easily navigable - it's one of the problems with Wikipedia having been built up over time rather than being a planned work from the start. I've also added a few more links to the article and removed the title header (which isn't normall added to Wikipedia articles). Have a look here at the changes I made. Grutness...wha? 01:42, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Weller brothers

Hi

Your first contribution to Wikipedia was of such high quality, at first I assumed it must have been a copyvio!

Congratulations - you're clearly going to be a fantastic asset to the project.

I'm making some careful edits to the article and wanted to flag up that one or two of them are clearing up slight ambiguities. It could be that in doing so I misrepresent what was actually intended. When I'm done, it would be useful if you'd compare the changes I've made with the previous version of the article (go to the article, click "history" and then click the circles next to my version and the previous one). If I've fouled up at all, I apologise and please do revert any incorrect changes.

Once again, welcome. --Dweller 08:49, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Dear Dweller,

Thank you for your kind remarks. I've read your revised version (I think) and it seems fine to me. Clearer, less ambiguous.

Yours,


Peter Entwisle

Great. Hope you're enjoying your introduction to the 'pedia. I found it hard getting my head round formatting issues when I started (quite recently) so I blatantly copied what others had done on pages I admired. Alternatively, you can follow the tips in some of the links in the Welcome message above.
Re this particular article. I know nothing about the subject matter, but it seems to me there's some material in the article that's less about the Weller brothers than it is about, say, the development of Otago or New Zealand etc. Some ham-fisted editor will come along at some point and hack it out for you and do a bad job... can I respectfully suggest you pre-empt this? Again, if I'm wrong, I'm always happy to stand corrected.
I assume you're a professional historian. I was a keen but pretty mediocre historian at Uni. Hats off to you. --Dweller 09:28, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Dear dweller. You're right some of the material is about the Weller brothers' role in the development of Otago and New Zealand. I'll give some thought to what you say but the reason people are interested in the Wellers, why they're 'notable', is because of their significance in that regard. One could write a life of Captain Scott concentrating on his upbringing, marriage etc. but it would be odd not to mention his role in Antarctic exploration and widely publicised death there.

You're right I'm a professional historian. I wrote the article on the Weller brothers in the New Zealand Dictionary of Biography. My Wikipedia article on them isn't the same. It's an update based on discoveries since then. I've had some enquiries about them from people who are probably related or interested in people who are, but also from people interested in their roles in things like the development of New Zealand's fishing industry, the evolution of tax regimes affecting this country etc.

It seemed to me that to be suitable for inclusion in the Wikipedia an article about people needed to be about notable people, whether they are socially elevated or good or bad characters being immaterial. The lives of notable people will always have a public as well as a private aspect, which it seemed to me should at least be indicated if not elaborated. But I will keep thinking about what you've said.

Writing history it's often difficult to precisely state the significance of an event. It's where things are most likely to prove contentious. I've worked to try to achieve reliable, useful assessments based securely on the ascertainable facts, which is what I was attempting with the Wellers. I appreciate your remarks of commendation.

Yours

Peter Entwisle

Dear Peter and Dweller - it may be worth creating a separate article such as History of Otago, which can take this information and much more. This should probably be raised as a suggestion on Talk:Otago and Talk:Dunedin before it's done, however, since it will have quite an impact on those two articles, but I think there is more than enough information for a separate article. You might be interested to note that the (currently very small) article on the Otago Gold Rush is a candidate for group effort and improvement as Wikipedia:New Zealand Collaboration of the Fortnight. Grutness...wha? 03:35, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Dear Grutness,

There's merit in the suggestion. However I at least quail a bit at the thought of writing a short history of Otago.

Peter Entwisle

You're right that it would be a big task. Some of it probably should be broken out of the Weller brothers article into its own article though... the question is, exactly what the subject of that new article should be. Perhaps moving some of it to the Otakou article would be a reasonable compromise for the time being, and using it for a history section in much the way that you have added a good history section to the Mosgiel article. Grutness...wha? 04:15, 23 June 2006

(UTC)


Mmm. Unless one wants to embark on an elaborate re-writing of the history of Otago and New Zealand it would be simpler to just stay with things as they are. Somebody else might like to do that work but I'm trying to stay within the boundaries of what's known now. It's not worth 'breaking things out' etc. unless you have an army of people willing to do the implied work.

Peter Entwisle

Also, moving the Weller material to the 'Otakou' section would be a travesty for reasons traversed in my note on the name 'otakou'.

Peter Entwisle

[edit] History of Dunedin

Dear Peter -

As I suggested when I saw you yesterday, I've separated out the history section from the main Dunedin page and made it into its own article (History of Dunedin), leaving a summarised version on the Dunedin page. Grutness...wha? 06:04, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

By the way, thank you for your kind words about my review of Diana Smillie's exhibition. I regard it as high praise, as you are almost certainly far better able to assess and critique an art review than 99% of the people who read that column! Grutness...wha? 08:45, 17 July 2006 (UTC)


Dear Grutness,


I just added a whole lot of references and bibliographic material to the first part of the Dunedin History article. But when I pressed the button it showed it in there, but with a message saying it hadn't been processed or something or other. Anyway. It isn't in and I can't find it again.

I put the stuff in because somebody complained the article wasn't referenced. It takes time to do this and it's frustrating when the system doesn't work. Or doesn't seem to. Perhaps you can find what happened to that last edit and retrieve it.

Peter Entwisle

It sounds as though you pressed the "Show preview" button, not the "Save page" button. It's also possible that you got an edit conflict as someone else made changes to the same section of the article but saved it just before you did. Sorry, but there's nothing anyone can do to retrieve the material now. I know the frustration of losing work like this; sometimes I make several small edits rather than waiting until I've made all the changes I want to in an article just to make sure that I get the first part of my work saved.-gadfium 22:38, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
No one seems to have edited History of Dunedin for a few days, so it was probably that you used "Show preview".-gadfium 22:40, 9 April 2008 (UTC)


Hmmm. Is that Grutness?

I don't think I did press 'show preview'. It certainly took a long time to put in the stuff before I pressed the button so perhaps the system just ran out of time, steam, patience, whatever. Still, I take your point about doing it in little bits to be safe. I'll try again that way. By the way somebody put in a statement that the first cemeteries were made in dunedin in the 1860s. They're thinking of the Northern and Southern cemeteries but there was an older European one on what is now the reserve at Arthur Street. Of course Maori had been buried here earlier - notably Te Rakiihia c.1785. I may modify that statement later accordingly. I hope no-one is offended.

Peter Entwisle —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.154.155.121 (talk) 22:50, 9 April 2008 (UTC)


Actually it wasn't "unsigned comment" as you can see. Furthermore when I did the edit it was saying I was signed in. This is all baffling.

(Signed) Peter Entwisle

The reason you get the "unsigned" message is because you are typing your name rather than using the signing mechanism of typing four tilde characters (~~~~) at the end of your messages. In the collection of buttons just above the edit window, there's one that looks like a signature which will insert it for you - it's beside the symbol of a W with a red bar through it. Since you add your name, whether you use a signature or not is no big deal.
By the way, I haven't introduced myself. I'm an Auckland editor, and I know Grutness quite well through Wikipedia although I've never met him. I make most of my substantial edits on history of small towns in Northland, although I have no qualifications related to history. Just at the moment, I'm busy at University so am not doing much article writing.-gadfium 23:33, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Seacliff Lunatic Asylum

Hello Peter - Thanks for editing Wikipedia, but can I please ask you to be a bit more careful on some of your edits?

On the above article, you deleted or rephrased (and thus removed) a number of important passages which were taken straight from the references such as the (intended) use of the tower as an observation point or the fact that the last buildings WAS demolished because of further earth movement.

You also edited the second image's caption so that it was not linked anymore (you forgot to close the brackets), added a number of unsourced claims (such as the the tower being a central part of revivalist architecture, or your speculation that Lawson was made a scapegoat). You also deleted a reference (the Hawkes Bay newspaper one).

I have kept a few of your edits where they were useful, tagged a few others (such as on the tower as a central style element and the "Lawson as a scapegoat" section) as needing a reference, and restored the image and reference.

Don't be too put out by my comments - but a well-sourced article like this needs some extra care being taken when being edited. Cheers. Ingolfson 06:27, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

Hi again. Another user, Grutness, noted that you were quite knowledgable on the matter, and I apologize if the above sounded a bit patronising - I was simply basing the tone of my comment on your (apparently recent) start with Wikipedia, not on your knowledge of the matter. As Grutness noted, you may well know more about the matter than I do. That said (and I hope I don't come across as patronising *now*), it is of little relevance - as neither you or I are acceptable references for claims made in the article (unless you wrote published books or articles about this, when it would be another matter Looks like you have. Please cite them where applicable when you add or change information in the article, and please explain (in the article text) if some of that should contradict other referenced information Ingolfson 11:03, 23 August 2007 (UTC)).
Therefore, unless we are debating style questions, all content and all claims should be referenced, and my edits only reflected that aim - to keep the content of the article reflecting what the references say. If you feel that the references misstate something, or leave out important bits, feel more than free to add data from other referenced sources accordingly. Happy editing. Ingolfson 08:04, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
Responded to you on my page. Cheers. Ingolfson 05:32, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Dear Ingolfson,

I appreciate your thoughts. There's quite a literature on Lawson and Seacliff and a few old quotes don't really do justice to the whole story. The New Zealand Encyclopaedia 1966 and the Dictionary of New Zealand Biography have summary accounts of his career and this matter. There's unpublished material (theses held at Canterbury University and the Hocken Collections, Dunedin) and a new biography is planned. If you want to reference the discussion I'd suggest trying those sources.

Regards,

Peter Entwisle