Talk:Petula Clark

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Tony Hatch? Is that the same guy who wrote the theme for Crossroads? Mike H 18:19, Jul 26, 2004 (UTC)

Yes, it is . . . user:SFTVLGUY2

I've reverted a bunch of recent changes made by user:SFTVLGUY2. It looks like a complete rewrite, with some new material added, but all links and formatting lost in the process. Please feel free to re-incorporate the added information, but please don't destroy the hard work of others with your edits. Jgm 18:52, 8 Nov 2004 (UTC)

It was not my intention to "destroy" anyone's work. As a first-time visitor to Wikipedia, I thought I was properly editing the entry for Petula Clark by adding considerably more than "some" new material. If anyone is guilt of "destroying" someone's hard work, it's Jgm, who removed everything I added by reverting the entry to its original and less-than-comprehensive form! User:SFTVLGUY2

Thank you for restoring the links and formatting to the article, and for your expansion. Jgm 11:47, 9 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Your article is wonderful, Tom.


Contents

[edit] Gay Icon Project

[edit] Clark and Belonfonte

" During a duet of an anti-war song she had composed, "On the Path of Glory," with guest Harry Belafonte, Clark innocently touched his arm, much to the dismay of a representative from Chrysler, the show's sponsor. When he insisted they substitute a different take, with Clark and Belafonte standing well away from each other, she and husband Woolf, producer of the show, refused and delivered the finished program to NBC with the touch intact. It aired to high ratings and much critical acclaim, and marked the first time a man and woman of different races touched on American television." I just had to add that I was so surprised to read that Clark's touch of Belofonte's arm was disapproved and the first ever seen on American televison between people of different racial backgrounds as late as 1968 --especially since they were also singing an Anti-War song. Great that Petula Clark and Harry Belafonte refused a more 'acceptable' take. At least most of the American viewers didn't share the same absurdity of the unwarranted dismay of the Chrysler company. Tari 22:09, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Is that what that was about? I came here wondering what on earth the article was talking about, i.e. why this innocent touch of the arm was significant. That it was a racial thing didn't even occur to me.
I think it might be advisable to mention what the issue was in the text. This is especially true for non-American readers, who may have no idea what race relations were like in the U.S. in the 1960s. --Saforrest 00:47, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
When was the first interracial kiss (on Star Trek?)--MartinUK (talk) 15:54, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] References

I've put a tag there at the top of the article to see if someone can supply a reputable source for 'over 70 million albums sold'. If a proper reference can be located, please remove the tag from the top of the article. Proto t c 15:23, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Clark and the Carpenters

The information about Petula Clark discovering the Carpenters appears to be apochryphal. According to the duo's biographer, Ray Coleman, the Carpenters were already signed to A&M (and had released an album) when the label arranged for their appearance at the premiere of Goodbye, Mr. Chips in late 1969. They certainly weren't well known then, however, and Clark may have believed that she was hearing undiscovered talent. RBrown 09:39, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

I have removed the information: that seems to be a reliable source. Graham/pianoman87 talk 13:47, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
Thanks. I've edited the information in the Carpenters article as well. RBrown 15:55, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
On January 11, 2002, I attended a concert by Clark at the Carpenter Center for the Performing Arts in Long Beach, CA. She was introduced by Richard Carpenter who, in his opening remarks, stated that he and his sister owed her a debt of gratitude for having brought them to the attention of Herb Alpert. I assume when info like this comes straight from the horse's mouth, so to speak, it can be accepted as accurate. SFTVLGUY2
I am not doubting your account of the 2002 concert, but even first person accounts such as you describe can be faulty when removed by more than 30 years from an event. If the Goodbye, Mr. Chips premiere occurred in late 1969 and if that was where Clark first heard the Carpenters perform, then no, she would not have been the one to bring them to Alpert's attention. They had already been signed to Alpert's label earlier that year and had already released the Offering LP by then. RBrown 03:59, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The early years

Isn't it more likely that the mention of the US Army should really be the British Army at El Alamein? She was very famous in the UK, not very famous in the US of A, and the US Army wasn't at El Alamein (certainly not in force) SteveCrook 01:33, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

Reference to the US Army is accurate, as documented in "This is My Song: A Biography of Petula Clark" by Andrea Kon, published by W.H. Allen & Co. Ltd., 1983 SFTVLGUY2
OK, thanks. My wrong assumption. SteveCrook 00:32, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The International Petula Clark Forum

[1] This is a great, friendly and very active place for fans of Petula Clark to discuss the career and music of the great lady. The forum is administated by someone who has been running the long-standing Original PetulaClark-Listserver at Yahoo Groups for nearly nine years and has been operating this forum since 2005. It would be so nice to see a link included on Petula's Wikipedia page for this wonderful Forum Almil 12:50, 2 February 2007 (UTC)Al

[edit] Use of International Dating format

Petula Clark is British. Using U.S. format (month/day/year) dates for this article is inappropriate under WP:DATE, which says:

If the topic itself concerns a specific country, editors may choose to use the date format used in that country. This is useful even if the dates are linked, because new users and users without a Wikipedia account do not have any date preferences set, and so they see whatever format was typed. See Wikipedia:Manual of Style#National varieties of English for more guidance.

Insisting that the article must use U.S. Dating format because the subject has American listeners and owns a house in Miami Beach is just bizarre. --Pete 23:45, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

As the dates have the month in words, both November 15 and 15 November are commonly found in use in Britain. If you stick to the Wikipedia standard then you can choose how to have the date displayed -- SteveCrook 23:58, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
As the reference indicates, users without an account (which is most users, being readers rather than editors) don't have date preferences set, and therefore see the raw format. --Pete 00:14, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
And as they use the month in words, it doesn't really matter. You don't get the same confusion you do with 11/12/06, not being sure if it's December 11th or November 12th -- SteveCrook 01:12, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
It matters to readers who otherwise get the impression that Wikipedia is an American product, when in fact the focus is on internationalisation. Using the same logic, you could argue that using American spellings in a British article is fine, because everyone knows what is meant. --Pete 03:49, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
But as I said before, when the month is spelt out, both forms are in common use in Britain -- SteveCrook 03:55, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
Feel free to amend the Manual of Style accordingly. Be prepared for a lot of resistance. I shall watch with interest. In the meantime, I shall continue to use International Dating format as per WP:DATE. --Pete 13:37, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Story behind "The Little Shoemaker"

About 10-15 years ago I read a biography of Clark that mentioned that some incident occurred just before she was to record "The Little Shoemaker" in 1952 (I believe it was a minor automobile accident) and she didn't want to go through with it. She was basically forced to and, despite the happy tone of the record, recorded it while glaring at her producer. Of course it then became a big hit, anyway. I think it would be interesting to add this bit of information to either this article or to the article on the song, but I can't do so without a source. Does anyone with a more complete library of Clark resources have a book or magazine article that can be used to cite this? The same article I read so many years ago also mentioned something about Clark not liking "My Love" and not wanting to record it, and that Charlie Chaplin did not approve of Clark singing a version of his composition "This is My Song" (that or he just didn't like the arrangement. 68.146.47.196 04:08, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use problems

User:Ssilvers asked me to review the fair use of non-free images in this article. I'm afraid there are several problems which must be resolved. I'll try to fix things up, starting tomorrow, but I'll probably have to remove a lot of images to bring the article up to standard. Specifically:

I hope we can save a few of these from deletion, but I'll have to start tagging them tomorrow, when I have time. Papa November 00:40, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Disputed "fact"

She also holds the distinction of having the longest span on the international pop charts of any artist — 51 years — from 1954, when "The Little Shoemaker" made the UK Top Twenty, to 2005, when her CD L'essentiel - 20 Succès Inoubliables charted in Belgium.

Sure, Petula's had a long career, but the above claim is utterly ludicrous. Off the top of my head, what about Bing Crosby, who was hitting the top of the US charts as a vocalist in the late 1920s, and had a #3 UK hit with David Bowie in 1993 with "Peace on Earth/Little Drummer Boy"? Or Louis Armstrong, who hit the US charts in the 1930s, and the UK charts as late as 1994 with "We Have All The Time In The World"? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.132.69.28 (talk) 21:07, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

What are you talking about? There weren't any US charts in the 1920s and 1930s. Sales of sheet music were tracked, but not individual recordings. The fact above has been cited in several places. 209.247.22.166 (talk) 13:18, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
I added two reliable references supporting this fact. 209.247.22.166 (talk) 13:37, 19 March 2008 (UTC)


The Billboard singles chart officially debuted in 1940, and Bing Crosby was on it the first year with several tracks (The Singing Hills, April Played the Fiddle, Sierra Sue, That's For Me, Trade Winds and Only Forever). He was on the UK charts as recently as 1998 with White Christmas -- http://www.chartstats.com/artistinfo.php?id=1003 -- and the U.S. chart in 2007 -- http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&token=ADFEAEE4791ED84FAB7620D6803C159BE723D208D14FB48D112D5651D6B66311DF5E6AB513ACC6CFB1FA7DF878A5FD2FAE5808C3BB93&searchlink=BING|CROSBY&samples=1&sql=11:hifoxqw5ld6e~T5 -- nothing against Petula, but this far surpasses her chart run. From KathMurillo —Preceding unsigned comment added by KathMurillo (talk • contribs) 05:23, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Given Crosby has been dead since 1977, it's obvious anything charting in 1998 or 2007 wasn't newly recorded material! Clark holds the record of the longest span on the international pop charts of any artist, a fact supported by the two references cited. MovieMadness (talk) 19:15, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

Just because you cite references doesn't make it accurate -- do the math yourself. The Crosby span is longer. What you write in her entry says nothing about charting with new material. And besides -- she charted with a hits package. Also, Doris Day -- first charted in '48 under her own name (Love Somebody) and reached the UK album chart in 2007. http://www.dorisdaytribute.com/news-sonybmg_the_magic_of_doris_day.htm -- this also beats the 51-year run. KathMurillo (talk) 00:17, 23 April 2008 (UTC) --

Also, Frank Sinatra first charted in 1942 ("Night and Day") and hit the Billboard Album Chart this year with "Nothing But the Best" -- this 66-year run also beats Petula's run. Both the Sinatra and Day recording include previously unreleased material, so if you are sticking to your charting with new/unreleased material fact, they both surpass it. Why try to include something that is obviously not true? I love Petula, but this is just inaccurate. KathMurillo (talk) 22:00, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Just because you say something is so doesn't make it a fact. You need to prove what you're claiming by providing references. Two sources back up the statement in the opening paragraph in this article. You haven't provided any sources proving your claims about Crosby, Sinatra, or Day. If you can, then the statement about Clark can be removed. Until then, it should stand as a fact substantiated by two different sources. 209.247.22.164 (talk) 14:46, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Included above are links for Doris Day and Bing Crosby chart achievements. For Frank Sinatra: http://www.livedaily.com/artists/5242.html -- and for the current charting album, http://www.billboard.com/bbcom/charts/albums_index.jsp

Chart positions pre 1955 can be found in Joel Whitburn's Pop Hits 1940-1954, published by Record Research In. (copyright 1994) -- at least that's my edition. I'm sure it's been republished since.

Again, simply do the math: All their chart debuts are earlier, and they have charted recently enough to give them longer spans on the chart. —Preceding unsigned comment added by KathMurillo (talk • contribs) 17:15, 9 June 2008 (UTC) KathMurillo (talk) 17:18, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Biography project priority rating

Obviously whoever ranked Petula Clark as being "low" priority in the Biography project is unfamiliar with Petula Clark. I have rectified this! 23skidoo (talk) 17:29, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:PetClark.jpg

Image:PetClark.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 07:03, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:YaYaTwist.jpg

Thanks for uploading or contributing to Image:YaYaTwist.jpg. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is not a suitable explanation or rationale as to why each specific use in Wikipedia constitutes fair use. Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale.

If you have uploaded other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on those pages too. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any non-free media lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. Papa November (talk) 00:22, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Non-free images

Please read WP:NFC for details of the non-free content policy. Non-free content needs a separate fair use rationale for every article it appears in. At the moment, there are too many fair use violations for the article to reach good article standard, so something needs to be done! Papa November (talk) 17:54, 11 June 2008 (UTC)