Talk:Peter Sutcliffe

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I was reading this article and noticed two continuity errors in this otherwise excellent write-up.

First is in the 1976 section, the paragraph:

Due to repeated tardiness Sutcliffe lost his first driving job in March, 1976 and did not find another until October. He attacked Marcella Claxton (aged 20), another prostitute, in Roundhay Park in Leeds on May 9. He struck her with a hammer and left her with 25 stab wounds.

This section refers to "another" prostitute, even though none of the previous victims listed had been identified as a prostitute.

The second continuity error is in the 1977 section, in the sentence:

Jayne MacDonald (aged 16) was not a prostitute, and her death suddenly made every woman a potential victim.

Again, the statement that since she wasn't a prostitute, her death suddenly made every woman a potential victim doesn't seem to be supported by the previous text, since only three out of the eight attacks listed were identified as prostitutes, and one of them was identified as a mother of four, which at least in the reading would imply that every woman was already a potential victim at that point, not so suddenly.

the point is that the killer killed a non prostitute, suddenly enlarging his victim base to everyone.........

Lincolnshire Poacher 14:43, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Excellent article though.

I've attempted to address this last point, by adding 'in the public perception', thus (I hope) making the point that the effect of the MacDonald murder was to bring home to the public what was already fact: that the perpetrator of the crimes was not just a prostitute killer, and that indeed any woman could become a victim. Guy Hatton 09:52, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

The first point, however, about Marcella Claxton being another prostitute, has not been addressed; none of the prior victims are identified as prostitutes. The article also needs to explain why and when Stucliffe was called the Yorkshire Ripper; it is alluded to in the text, regarding the hoax telephone call, but the chronology mentions the "Ripper squad" before this. There needs to be at least a token mention and explanation of Jack the Ripper, the historical figure, if only along the lines of "... Jack the Ripper, the infamous 19th Century serial killer of women". Also, I want cake and I want it now and if anybody doesn't like it they can go to the prison place! [1] [2]-Ashley Pomeroy 13:57, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

I've added a link to a Guardian article about the arrest of a man suspected of sending the hoax letters and tape. Although this is a 'current event', I'm presuming that it is not sufficient to warrant adding the {current} heading to the whole article.Guy Hatton 10:34, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

The section dedicated to the Yorkshire Ripper was effectively made redundant following revision of Yorkshire Ripper. My thanks to whomever contributed this information; your work was integrated to the best of my abilities in the aforementioned article. --Raj Fra 04:01, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

I have added a couple of details regarding attacks made on Sutcliffe during his time in prison. I have tried to keep it as neutral as possible and I hope that this doesn't detract from the overall article. As far as I know, there have been three serious assaults on him, only one of which was covered in the article up to now. I also added a couple of links to back up the entries, although if anybody can supply links from a more respected source then maybe we could add them instead.

The source you're using, (Keith Brannen's Yorkshire Ripper Web Site), is probably the most reliable online account at present. Guy Hatton 12:58, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Broomhill is a leafy suburb of Sheffield beloved by John Betjeman Broomhall is the red light district and this is (unsurprisingly) where Sutcliffe was arrested.Dave59 21:24, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, I'm wrong.Sutcliife picked up Olivia Reivers in Havelock Square, Broomhall (I used to live there, heard about the arrest the next day, and assumed it had happened "on site". The dangers of "local knowledge") and drove her to Melbourne Avenue in Broomhill. Broomhill is however definately not, as stated in some accounts, an area famous for its prostitutes. Dave59 21:46, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

My best mate's dad knew Sutcliffe, they used to meet in the pub sometimes, he said that one curious trait was that Sutcliffe rarely smiled, can someone inform me how I could put down the source of this information in the correct fashion.

Not sure there's a suitable way of doing this is within Wikipedia. You need to be able to cite reputable sources within the article, not just hearsay, with the utmost respect. If you'd like to discuss this further, don't hesitate to get in touch on my talk page. Cheers! Budgiekiller 22:31, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Contents 1 Early life 2 Prison and Broadmoor Hospital section - Rumours refuted 3 Map 4 Good Map 5 conforming to WP:Profanity 6 Date of mother's death incorrect?

[edit] Early life

In this section (as in many other media reports of Sutcliffe) "a series of menial jobs" is qualified immediately by "including a stint as a gravedigger". Now, why is this particular job of any greater relevance than any of the *other* menial jobs? Or has it just been carelessly or unconsciously included because someone perceives that "dead body" is a common feature of graves and murders? As far as I'm aware, there's been no suggestion that Sutcliffe's job as a gravedigger influenced his later behaviour, so this bit of information is probably irrelevant, possibly even POV. 132.244.246.25 (talk) 11:19, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

I will research my YR book collection to draw up a list. Phildav76 (talk) 21:01, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Although the Wikipedia article doesn't mention it, the relevance of the gravedigger's job was that this is where Sutcliffe first claimed to hear voices that ultimately would 'instruct' him to begin killing. He claimed that the voices originated from a headstone. Sutcliffe gave considerable testimony about this. Perhaps this should be worked into the Wikipedia article but not in the Early section. Please read this article [3] --Berean Hunter (talk) 11:57, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

Followup quotation;

"Sutcliffe, whom had worked as a gravedigger, had claimed that 'voices' emanating from the gravestone of a deceased Polish woman had ordered him to kill prostitutes. Further, Sutcliffe told the hushed court that the voice he had heard was that of God." Published on 25 May 2005 | Source: New Criminologist [4] --Berean Hunter (talk) 12:19, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

I've worked this into the article under the '1981 arrest and trial' section, 3rd paragraph with references. --Berean Hunter (talk) 13:41, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Prison and Broadmoor Hospital section - Rumours refuted

The following claim..

"Reports suggested that Sutcliffe received nearly £200,000 in compensation for the attack, but West London Mental Health Trust, which runs Broadmoor Hospital, issued a statement on 18/01/08 refuting these rumours and stating that no compensation had been paid in relation to this incident."

needs a citation. I've been trying unsuccessfully to locate a source online. Can someone assist? Thank you...--Berean Hunter (talk) 10:38, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Map

For greater detail, a large-scale version of the map (below) could be used. - Gobeirne (talk) 20:01, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Good Map

Good work on the map! I'm in favor of using it in the article. Well done. Berean Hunter (talk) 00:41, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] conforming to WP:Profanity

In the last paragraph of the Broadmoor Hospital section the quote needs to be preserved until a citation can identify how this was presented in its published form.

WP:Profanity states

"...when quoting relevant material from external sources, rendering a quote as it was originally spoken/written trumps our style guidelines. If necessary, you may indicate that the blanking was in the original quote by saying so in some way outside of the quote, for example by using "[censorship preserved]" or "[sic]"."

Until we have a citation to prove otherwise, it needs to remain as the author wrote it to conform to this.

Thank you, Berean Hunter (talk) 00:53, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

This source [www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1943730/posts Free Republic] has the censorship intact..in fact, every source that I've found on this so far has them. According to WP:Profanity, when the original source has the ***'s in them, you are supposed to use them as well...else remove all the quotes with them. Berean Hunter (talk) 02:34, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Date of mother's death incorrect?

The "1979" section would seem incorrect by it's wording..:

1979

Almost a year passed before he struck again; during this time his mother died on 8 November 1979. On 4 April 1979, he killed Josephine Whitaker —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.18.1.36 (talk) 17:36, 14 May 2008 (UTC)