Talk:Perseus

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Contents

[edit] Naming of this page

As I have said on my talk page, there are two major meanings that could go here -- the mythological character and the constellation. In general, when one name is derived from the other (as in this case, the constellation from the mythological character), it is our policy to put the original name on the article. →Raul654 20:31, Jul 22, 2004 (UTC)

Yet, the disambiguation page was accepted and used by many. Create an ambiguity when disambiguation existed is useless. Breaking all the links (articles, Talk pages, watchlists and so on) is destructive and is a waste of time for everybody. I can't do it myself, but please reconsider a revert. You're imposing a lot of job to everybody here. (since nothing has obviously been done with the links and the interwikis. At least, that move should have been previoulsly discussed with other users. That is called democracy.Robin des Bois ♘ ➳ ✉ 02:31, 23 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Hi Robin. The way it is now is better. But, this raises the issue, should the presentation of the article be based on convenience or excellence? If you think about it I think you will agree it should be excellence. Wikipedia has plenty of time and people. What I usually do when I get hung up on an article or issue is take a break from it. Things look different down the road and it saves you a temper tantrum in which you quit or get banned from Wikipedia. And, just because your view didn't prevail doesn't mean this is not a democratic process. Best wishes.Dave 13:19, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

By the way, 'Περσέως' (Perseos) is not a name but the genitive form of the name. Furthermore 'Περσέας' (Perseas) is just a demoted demotic greek version in use only from the year 1980 and on. The -eus ending defines noble origin. The -eas (and in some cases -ias) ending was an attempt of the democratic greek governments to bring down royalist sentiment the years after the end of the colonels junta. Accordingly words like Basileus (King) became basilias and so on and so on... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.89.129.162 (talk) 06:11, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Format

Hi arbani. I can see that your intent was to move the picture to the right. However your change put the picture all by itself! It looked awful. So I experimented a little and got the text to fill in. I think this is what you had in mind. If not, bring it up again. Best wishes. Thanks.Dave 13:26, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

sorry to inform people that the Greek-Roman gods love Ethiopia. Ethiopia=Aethiopia!?! Scholars USED to say such bias races things of that nature, BUT the more we as a whole research the more we find out that Black Africans had a place in Greco-Roman myths and lifestyles. moshun11 moultrie11@hotmail.com

[edit] Notes

"It is the sole surviving line from Aeschylus' lost play." Sorry if I'm being obtuse - but what is the sole surviving line from the play? This comment seems to be standing all on its own and doesn't seem to refer to anything... - Adaru 13:56, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

"Like a wild boar he entered the cave" is the line. Is it better now?

This is the best Greek mythological character page I have seen so far on Wikipedia. Good job whoever did this, it has better information than my textbook. Thanks!

[edit] Historical Perseus

Is all the speculation about historical Perseus based on Kerenyi or what? A quick flip through OCD and a couple of my books doesn't reveal any suggestion of a plausible historical connection. If it's a single author's theory, then that theory needs to be more clearly demarcated, so it doesn't look like a scholarly consensus. Stan 22:05, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

There is no speculation of this kind in Kerenyi, The heroes of the Greeks. --Wetman 05:29, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Grammar Mistakes

Will somebody plese go through and edit all the grammar mistakes, please? I especially took notice of lack of capitalization after a period. like this. and it is annoying.

[edit] Horses?

"The Medusa was horselike in archaic representations[4], the terrible filly of a mare— Demeter, the Mother herself— who was in her mare nature when Poseidon assumed stallion form and covered her. The issue of her foaling were the gorgon sisters."

This story needs a source if it's going to be here--it doesn't appear on the pages for the Medusa or for the Gorgons, and the only related information Wikipedia has (or that I know of) is that Persephone was conceived when Demeter was in the form of a horse. I can't think of having read anthing like this about the Medusa anywhere nor can I find it online. PoetrixViridis 23:19, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

The little number 4 in the text above is blue because it would link an inquiring reader to a footnote, in this case to one reading "Kerenyi 1959:48". This means Karl Kerenyi's 1959 publication, page 48. Under References that reader would see the title, The Heroes of the Greeks, one of the most familiar books on Greek myth. I've added the passage from Pausanias to the note. If it's the Poseidon-as-stallion:Demeter-as-mare that is causing resistance here, I recommend the standard Kerenyi, The Gods of the Greeks, especially the section "Demeter, and Poseidon's stallion-marriage". We should certainly add the multiple equine connections to Gorgon or Medusa, a Wikipedian oversight. --Wetman 03:09, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Corrections about the fight for Andromeda

I have corrected a glaring error in the fight for Andromeda. Someone had evidently entered the name of Agnor as the person who Perseus fought for his future wife, Andromeda in Aethiopia. Using Ovid's [[Metamorphoses]http://www.tkline.freeserve.co.uk/Metamorph5.htm#_Toc64106308] one finds that the uncle of Andromeda is called Phineus, not Agnor. With this change, one can visit the site listed, for further insight into this particular event in the story of Perseus.

Rmalmeida 10:37, 3 February 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Perseus and Egypt

Perhaps, Perseus originally was an admiral of Egyptian Navy.

Consequently,

Perseus born in Chemmis (a ancient Egyptian city near Panopolis) (see Herodotus Histories). He was, originally, an admiral of Egyptian Navy.

He defeated Gorgons, an pirate people ( ~ Careans) of South Asia Minor or Cyprus (e.g. Golgi, an ancient Cypriot city) and killed its queen Medusa. So, he became famous.

Later, he undertook (by Egyptian nationalists) to assassinate Zannanza, an Hittites prince, son of Suppiluliuma I.

He should give Ankhesenamen ( = Andromeda) to Ay (= Phineus) but, indead, he drive Andromeda and his fleet to Argos of Greece.

--IonnKorr 14:35, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "Some" versions

"...note: some versions feature Perseus trying to use the head of Medusa to turn the monster to stone, but it did not work because the monster lacked eyes and couldn't see the head, so he slew it with his sword, instead.." What version would this be? Please reference this and return it to the text. Xenia Warrior Princess doesn't count.--Wetman 19:15, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Gorgon's picture

The picture adds significantly to the article. it is of high resolution and it should remain. All interested users please leave your comments here. Thanks. Dr.K. 02:50, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

You took the photo, so your opinion on it is less than useful. To the contrary, it is not particularly high resolution, it is framed poorly, poorly lit, has poor contrast, and the central figure that we're supposed to be looking at is all but impossible to see thanks to your poor photography skills. I've removed it, and, you, as the person who took the picture, have no right to put it back against objections, as that's a clear violation of Wikipedia policies against vanity, conflict of interest, self-promotion and so forth. DreamGuy 21:16, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
I cannot have an intelligent conversation with a person who uses adjectives like crappy and unsubstantiated allegations such as wanting my photo to be used out of vanity etc. But hopefully other users will not stand for a single bad mannered user to dictate their taste to them and in the process deprive them from an excellent example of an original gorgon picture from early Greek antiquity. Currently as it stands you are in the minority. Another user (Wetman) obviously does not agree with you. Does he also do it out of vanity? And how many people do you need to tell you before you let them enjoy the picture? Because your personal opinion is that you don't like it you cannot possibly impose your opinion on Wkipedia. Talking about vanity! As far as poor photography skills at least I tried to help Wikipedia by taking the picture. Obviously I was not counting on self righteous, revert at any cost, destructive editors, with low resolution computer screens , on a mission to impose their taste on everyone else. Dr.K. 22:18, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
As far as this nonsense about poor contrast this is exactly as it appears in real life at the Corfu museum. If you visited the museum in person like I did you would know this exact contrast and lighting conditions prevail at the museum. It has nothing to do with poor photography skills. In fact an almost identical unfree picture that was used in the past looked exactly the same. Ask Carnildo about it. We had long conversations about unfree images together. Dr.K. 23:05, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
Finally this image is used in the French, Italian and Hebrew Wikipedias [[1]]. I don't think I uploaded it there also! Dr.K. 23:29, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
I will not revert any further out of respect for process. I will refer this to comments from users and possibly arbitration, as I have better things to do than edit warring with deletionists without a cause. Dr.K. 18:08, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] For the record

I am being accused that I try to put the image of the Gorgon pediment to promote myself and out of ego. Nothing could be further from the truth. I simply replaced many unfree images with GFDL ones after long conversations with Jkelly and Carnildo and donated them to Wikipedia in order to assist the project. Here is just a sample of some of my correspondence with Jkelly about the donated pictures: User_talk:Tasoskessaris#Image:KerkyraDimarheio.jpg_listed_for_deletion. Dr.K. 20:02, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Vote?

For interested users please vote here to keep or not the Gorgon pediment picture from the Corfu Museum. See dicussion above. Dr.K. 20:02, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

  • I'd rather not see the image here; we already have several pictures showing Perseus depicted in art with the gorgon, and they are generally of higher quality (both the picture, and the art pictured) than this one. This one shows the gorgon before its head is removed, but while that may be of value in Gorgon, I don't see how it's really important here. Mangojuicetalk 17:42, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
  • I think that the image is fine, but this article does indeed already have a lot of illustration. Jkelly 23:07, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
The image is at Gorgon anyway, so it's still available to the reader; but what would induce Mangojuice and User:Jkelly, who have never edited this article, to find the article, have an opinion here, and vote on it? --Wetman 20:35, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
This debate ended in June. At the risk of re-igniting this unfortunate discussion I will reply to this; I requested these third party opinions and they accepted to offer their input. These two administrators were involved in other image related cases with me and I value their expertise. Dr.K. 21:03, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
I missed the whole scuffle above! --Wetman 02:20, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
Yes, it happens even as I thought this dog was sleeping! Let's put it back to bed. Take care. Dr.K. 02:30, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "Hegemony"

The introduction to this article reads: ...first of the mythic heroes of Greek mythology whose exploits helped establish the hegemony of Zeus and the Twelve Olympians in the mainland of Greece.

Uh, how? If that's a reference to the Titanomachia or Gigantomachia, it's simply untrue. If it's suppose to mean something in relation to rise of Olympian religion, then it needs to be clarified. I'll remove it until it's otherwise improved. 76.180.148.27 02:22, 30 September 2007 (UTC)