Talk:Peronism

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I wonder if it wouldn't be better to describe Peronism as a "movement" rather than an "ideology". Of this movement, there are several factions, ie the political parties... -- Viajero 13:42 6 Jul 2003 (UTC)

What's with "Racism is often made out to be integral to fascism"? I suppose that I can't argue too much with "often": plenty of people want to tie fascism to every bad thing that's out there, and I understand the appeal of such a position. Still, for an encyclopedia article, that could use some sourcing. To the best of my knowledge Mussolini wasn't particularly racist (though he was certainly nationalist and imperialist, and certainly not anti-racist). -- Jmabel 07:40, 6 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Racism would not have had any appeal in Argentina, a country that was lily-white in the 1950s and is about 97% white today. There were not enough minorities for any racist campaign to have any sort of appeal. Peron did, when speaking to an international audience, come off as an anti-racist. With regards to Argentina's Jewish community, Peron himselfdid not seem to be an anti-semite and there were sizeable numbers of Jewish Peronists, yet his Education Minister, Hugo Wass, was a vocal anti-semite who dismissed many Jewish professors and secondary school teachers. In my opinion, Peron's interests lie in political power rather than ethnic supremacy, much like Napoleon I. (anonymous, 17 March 2005)
  • No real disagreement with any of that, but I will point out that many Poles these days can be quite anti-Semitic without needing to have any actual Jews to blame things on. And there certainly has been no shortage of anti-Semitism in Argentina at various times. -- Jmabel | Talk 01:07, Mar 18, 2005 (UTC)

I, too, have a problem with the statement that racism is thought to be integral to fascism. It is not part of the definition of fascism and many fascisms were not racist. I'm deleting said sentence. -ZeroAsALimit

I'd also love to see a little more analysis of what Peronism means in contemporary Argentina. -- Jmabel 07:40, 6 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Recently added by User:Jillianm: "Even though Peron was executed, Peronism still left a strong imprssion on the working class for goals and aspects of life to fight for and hold strong to." As far as I know, Peron died a natural death. What is this about him being executed??? -- Jmabel 20:58, 14 Apr 2004 (UTC)

After reading the article, I'm a bit confused by His public speeches were consistently "nationalist" and "populist". Either they were nationalist and populist (in which case the quotation marks are not necessary), they were not nationalist or populist (in which case the words are incorrect), or there's disagreement (in which case that needs to be explicit). I lack the knowledge of the subject matter to make a change -- anyone watching this page, please clarify. --Ilya 08:16, 7 Aug 2004 (UTC)

I see no reason for scare quotes. -- Jmabel 15:07, Aug 7, 2004 (UTC)
         WHO WAS JUAN PERON? THE CASE  "GIOVANNI PIRAS - JUAN PERON"

(the truth on the origins of Juan Domingo Peron) ¿DONDE NACIÓ PERÓN? a sardinian enigma in the history of Argentina. (That is published by the investigation’s autors Gabriele Casula and Raffaele Ballore). One of the most mysterious and fascinating cases of the modern history of Mamoiada, a village of the central Sardinia in province of Nuoro (Italy), is with no doubt the one of " Giovanni Piras - Juan Peron ":that is to say two names, two individuals, in truth were the same person. Sure, it is hard to believe that mythical General Juan Peron, three times president of the Argentine, was, exactly, Giovanni Piras, that same humble peasant that at the beginning of the century emigrated young in South America. You will all ask why this Giovanni Piras would have had to change identity or why Juan Peron hid his true origin. Piras had to create for himself an Argentine birth in order to avoid the call to the arms for war 1915-18 from part of his native land and to escape the officials of the Italian embassy, who searched the emigrant deserters. In that period Giovanni Piras, with the aid of powerful persons that were also friends, found the most suitable situation to creep in: a substitution of person was put into effect, which served also in order to undertake the studies to the Military Academy, granted only to the Argentinean citizens, born and nationalized in Argentine. To change identity was, in fact, the sole manner to enter the Colegio Militar. Once he became the President of the Argentine Republic, to greater reason his true identity did not have to be revealed, since the Argentinean Constitution states that the President of the nation must be native of the place. An irreversible process, a point of no return had been primed; the situation became very serious and dangerous for Peron because with the person substitution a fraud had happened to the State, a serious crime and not only for a politician. To reveal the true identity meant to compromise his credibility, his deep concept of native land, of " betrayal of the native land, and of being a true, genuine and faithful Argentinean ", that he exalted and repeated in many speeches; it meant to lose his rank, his uniform and his power. To rigor of logic, this was the reason for which he hid his true identity, a much dangerous one for his position; otherwise, Peron would have shown his true origin, as he went proud of it. Peron justified his great love for Sardinia and the Sardinians saying that the paternal great-grandfather had come from that island, therefore he had Sardinian blood in the veins, but later, his alibi of this declared ancestors did not stand firm. In one of the books of Enrique Pavòn Pereyra, a personal biographer of Juan Peron, a great enigmatic draw has a sentence (dictated to the writer from the exiled Argentinean in his Madrilenian house) on how he jealously preserved the origin of his birth rate; it reads so: “I have played with my destiny a magical bet, and I was successful until today conserving my origins as deep secret”. In Mamoiada this is a case debated from almost sixty years: in the 1951 N. Tola by the newspaper “Unione Sarda”; in the 1984 P. Canneddu whith the book “Juan Peron-Giovanni Piras two names one person”; in the 200/3 the report of Raffaele Ballore an the book of Gabriele Casula “¿DONDE NACIÓ PERÓN? un enigma sardo nella storia dell’Argentina” have illustrated the proofs collected, unmasking and effectively demonstrating plenty of the contradictions of Peron and of the Argentinean historians with documents and photographs, beyond numerous documented oral testimonies and coincidences. The great Argentine press and the living biographers of general Peron never answered to the appeals to discuss the case. Their indisposition to reconsider objectively and serenely the whole story is to be interpreted like fear of the truth and that their studies on the important personage could be knocked down and mocked. The case could feed ideological earthquakes or provoke patriotic resentments. The worries for the risk of tearing open this myth are comprehensible, but the historical truth must not have compromises. From the author’s part, to prove the true identity of Peron in no way must be seen as a discourteous action towards the Argentinean people nor a way to lessen the myth of their former President: if he was elected democratically for three times it means that he must have had some merit, indeed, together with Evita he remains a mythical personage in the entire Latin American panorama. Only after reading the report and the book an objective judgment can be expressed and a conclusion can be attained. The report is documented and deposited, every information is reliable; not only the several oral testimonies are there but, this time, also documentary and photographic proofs. For more informations to the report and the book please visit the site www.piras-per

Contents

[edit] Ethnic policy of Peronism

Though the article correctly states that Peronism was not a racist ideology, its nationalism included the idea of a more-or-less homogeneous "Argentine people" and explicitly encouraged immigration of Catholic and Latin peoples over others. It seems that Peronism (ostensibly for reasons of political stability) wanted a national melting pot undisturbed by diversity. In addition to that, the DAIE (Argentine Delegation of Immigration in Europe) filtered out most political refugees (except Eastern European Nazi collaborationists), Communists, and many non-Catholics; applications from Jews (and Muslims) were rejected in large numbers. See LEONARDO SENKMAN, Etnicidad e inmigración. I wonder how we can insert this into the article, which seems terribly short at this time. —Pablo D. Flores (Talk) 11:13, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Recent edits, possible need for overhaul

[copied from User talk:Pablo-flores ]
These recent uncommented anonymous edits to Peronism strike me as not entirely wrong, but at best a mixed bag. I simply don't know enough to go in and make corrections, and the article is way undercited. I'm calling it to your attention in hopes that you can do a better job than I would. - Jmabel | Talk 23:49, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Regarding those edits, I don't really know what to do about them... My first impulse was to revert them because they are unsourced, but then the content of the previous version which was changed was also unsourced, and the current one is, as you said, not clearly wrong, and quite NPOV (with the exception of the wording about fascism). I'm by no means an expert on Peronism and I don't have good sources on me. If you feel you can do better, start a discussion in Talk:Peronism and invite the anonymous editor in question. —Pablo D. Flores (Talk) 00:39, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
The article in general eventually needs an overhaul, but I hesitate to wade in without good sources at hand. I'd barely dare write a factual biographical piece on Perón, let alone the much more slippery topic of peronismo. - Jmabel | Talk 00:52, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

[end copied]


[edit] Third way link ambiguous

In the first paragraph, among the defining characteristics of Peronism is listed "A third way approach to economics..."
Third way is a disamb page which lists in part

Would it be better to make mentions of the "third way" in Peronism link to Third way (centrism), or is this incorrect here? -- Writtenonsand 11:06, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Yes, that would be the right meaning. - Jmabel | Talk 18:08, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
No, I don't think so Jmabel :) Third way (centrism) is a movement which tries to superate left-right differences by positioning itself at the center ; in no way does it advocate an alternative to Capitalism ! While Third Position is a tendency in fascist movements which proposes itself as an alternative both to Capitalism and to Communism. If one would have to choose between both, Peron would actually be better in the latter. But this is really controversial, as it amounts, basically, to say that Peron was a Nazi, which is false (despite his acquaintainces with Nazism). I think no linking at all would be best — or, maybe, and I'll do it (reverse me if I'm wrong), simply putting others examples of third way in the disambiguation page (i.e. Peronism, Gaullism, social market economy, etc.) Tazmaniacs 16:19, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Perónist propaganda

Copied from Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2007 August 12 for processing. --Ghirla-трёп- 17:03, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

There were two essential elements to Perónist propaganda; first, the usual thing that one most associates with this activity: posters, speeches, publications and promotions of all kinds; and second, the practical work carried out by Eva Peron, the President's wife, in the Eva Perón Foundation, the charity she founded and managed, even at a micro-level. It would be difficult to uderestimate the impact of this, and the personal contact it afforded many people with Evita, which was to sanctify her, both living and dead, and, for a time, shore up the authoritarian regime established by her husband. Her work in promoting Perón was also furthered by the establishment of the Female Peronist Party, shortly after women gained the vote in Argentina in 1947. Faithful cadres were sent across the country, everywhere promoting the Perónist message. It was a highly effective, election-winning machine.

Apart from party publications promoting the actions, and more important, pushing the image of the President and his movie-star wife, the normal press channels were also subject to a high degree of control and co-ordination. Opposition newspapers were intimidated into acquiescence, or closed down altogether, as was La Prensa in 1951. Evita also bought her own paper, Democracia, which presented news in an attractive, photo-rich and Perónist light. Radio broadcasts also served the same purpose. Official publications, like The Argentine Nation: Just, Free, Sovereign, were essentially photo opportunities, punctuated by text celebrating the regime's achievments. Others catered for the growing personality cult, with titles like How PERÓN gets it done, A Happy People Acclaims Perćn, The Social Mystique of Eva Perón, so on and so forth.

But the most significant work of all was that carried out among school children, which included the publication of school books and stories like Little Cachito. In this an eight-year-old boy who comes from a family too poor to afford to buy Christmas presents but eventually gets a football thanks to the generosity of Evita and her foundation, which ensures that all the children of Argentina receive gifts, and no-one is left in tears! Children learned to read by pronouncing the names of Evita and Perón. After Evita's death in the summer of 1952 the following little prayer was included in the second-year reader;

Little Mother, who art in heaven, good fairy smiling among the angels, Evita: I promise to be as good as you could wish, respecting God, loving my country, loving General Perón, studying and being in every way the child of your dreams; healthy, happy, educated and clean-hearted. Looking at your portrait, like one who swears an oath, I make this promise to you. Even more, I ask you: have confidence in youe child, Evita!

It was in this area that the work of Perónist propaganda had its greatest impact, outlasting the overthrow of the regime by the military in the 1955 coup. By the 1960s the regime was under sustained attack from radical youth, from the very people who had grown up with the image of Saint Evita and the omnipotent General Juan. Clio the Muse 01:32, 13 August 2007 (UTC)