Talk:Percy Lavon Julian

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Good article Percy Lavon Julian has been listed as one of the Natural sciences good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can delist it, or ask for a reassessment.
Maintained The following user(s) are actively involved with this article and may be able to help with questions about verification and sources:
Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )
This in no way implies article ownership; all editors are encouraged to contribute.

Contents

[edit] Family

In addition to a daughter, Faith, Dr. and Mrs. Julian had a son, Percy L. Julian, Jr. Percy L. Julian, Jr. is a prominent attorney in Madison WI.

See the following:

mjryanjd@wi.rr.com 72.128.90.14 04:02, 6 December 2006 (UTC)


I went to Percy Julian Junior High in Oak Park, where we all studied the history of Dr. Julian. Despite being taught the many racial shortcomings of Oak Park, we were never taught that the Julian were "the first colored family" in Oak Park, so I'm doubtful of the veracity of that statement.

According to the current exhibit on the Julians at the DuSable Museum of African-American History, they were the first colored family in Oak Park. Shsilver 23:21, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
Is it appropriate to say "colored?" I was under the impression that term is considered offensive now?165.176.123.2 17:57, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Additions

I added both a street and a building to the Legacy section, as well as a link to DePauw's excellent archives. The PBS documentary made quite a stir on this campus, which is what prompted me to see this page in the first place. There are a few other things that aren't mentioned in the article that may be of interest to readers: for example, Julian was on the board of trustees for four universities, including DePauw, near the end of his life. In any case, hope I could help. Archaeo 14:58, 7 February 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Move

I moved this to the Glidden article, no point in having a history of the Soy division in a biography: "In 1958, Central Soya of Fort Wayne, Indiana acquired Julian's Soy Products Division (Chemurgy) of the Glidden Paint Company, Chicago. Food grade, soy protein isolate, first became available on October 2, 1959 with the dedication of Central Soya's edible soy isolate, Promine D, production facility on the Glidden Company industrial site in Chicago. An edible soy isolate; and edible spun soy fiber has also been available, since 1960, from Ralston Purina Company of St.Louis,Ill. who had hired Robert Boyer and Frank Calvert. In 1987, PTI became the world's leading maker of isolated soy protein. In 2003, Central Soya's (Bunge) Protein Division, joined/merged with DuPont's soy protein (Solae) business,which in 1997 had acquired Ralston Purina's soy division, Protein Technologies International (PTI), St. Louis, Missouri."

Norton you are left over from the "honeymooners".. you better start reading the material on the PBS website Forgotten Genius especially the timeline..........Career Milestones...enough for now!

[edit] Birth Control Pill

While he made an early batch of synthetic estrogen. It was not the first batch of synthetic estrogen, and natural estrogen is not used in BCP because it is not water soluble. The orally active synthetic version used in BCPs was synthesized by others. He is a great steroid chemist, but please do not attribute work to him he was not involved in. If you watched the show, he himself said he was not involved in the BCP. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) 03:58, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

The closest quote I see is:

[edit] Find source

  • "This invention saved the lives of countless thousands of American sailors." also needs to be depeacocked

[edit] Credit for fermentation process

Upjohn is given credit in this article for developing the microbial process for production of cortisone on an industrial scale, but according to Nova's "Forgotten Genius" show, Julian is given the credit. He may have been working for Upjohn (I forget now), but he deserves credit for this. It's treated as an important achievement in the show, and a turning point in his life, since he left his job (at Glidden? Upjohn?) and went into business in Mexico, where a certain variety of yams grow, which produce more of the percursor Substance S than soybeans. There, he encountered resistance due to racism and the opposition of a large American company, which wasn't corrected until Congress stepped in years afterwards. A man whose life he saved helped him obtain the yams from Guatemala, I think. Before that help arrived, he'd contemplated suicide. D021317c 09:36, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Oops! I take it back. The transcript is available online at http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/transcripts/3402_julian.html and says though Upjohn developed the fermentation process, that led to Julian's decision to go into business. D021317c 09:49, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Move from "Percy Julian" to "Percy Lavon Julian"

The move of this Wikipedia article (three years after its creation) without discussion on 6 February 2007 from "Percy Julian" to "Percy Lavon Julian" was unwarranted and does not follow WP:NCP guidelines. Most articles about Percy Julian, refer to him as "Percy Julian", some articles refer to him as "Percy L. Julian" (the name he used on his scientific publications). This article should be renamed back to its original title "Percy Julian".

69.208.203.52 00:59, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] GA hold

This article is on hold for these reasons, 7 days are allotted to fix them: 1)expand lead to two paras to better summarize the article. 2)fix ref formats to make consistent, I fixed ref 14 as a sample for you. 3)see if you can find more refs. Rlevse

The ref that is now number 14 (about the $13.5mil) is not in proper format. Fix that and I'll promote it.Rlevse 19:41, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Dubious statements

These statements appear to be misassumptions generated by watching a NOVA television program dramatization of the life of Percy Julian:

"While at Glidden, his chemical synthesis of human steroids from plant steroid precursors would lay the foundation for the birth control pill and cortisone."

    • This is a direct quote from Nova: "The work of Julian and Marker would lay the foundation for a whole new class of medicines, including the birth control pill and a wonder drug that would soon take the world by storm. Source: [1]. Wikipedia isn't about truth and it isn't a venue for original research, or drawing new conclusions based on synthesizing the research of others.
    • The other quote is: "The results, though, speak for themselves. Julian's work, which centered on re-creating the chemicals found in plants, led directly to the steroids that treat rheumatoid arthritis, and indirectly to the birth control pill. It's a giant legacy, and it deserves to be remembered." Source: [2]
    • If you have a suggestion for how something should be reworded, bring it up here, and have a source for it.
  1. How did Julian lay the foundation for the birth control pill?
  2. How did Julian lay the foundation for cortisone?

"After leaving Glidden he started his own company to compete against Syntex to break their monopoly on synthesizing human steroids from the Mexican yam. His competition reduced the cost of synthetic steroids for patients."

    • "I thought, personally, that that was a good opportunity to recover some profits from the low yields of the previous year. Instead, he dropped the price of this stuff from $4,000 a kilo down to about $400 a kilo. And I couldn't understand why he would do that." Source: [3]
  1. Did a Syntex monopoly on synthesizing steroids from Mexican yams affect the price of steroid drugs for patients?
  2. Did Julian Laboratories alone break a Syntex monopoly on synthesizing steroids from Mexican yams?
  3. Did competition with Syntex by Julian Laboratories reduce the price of steroid drugs for patients?


  • Progesterone price (as an intermediate, in bulk) (1)
    • 1940 $140.00/g - Glidden (Julian) synthesizes 1 lb from stigmasterol from soybean oil, sells it to Upjohn
    • 1943 _$80.00/g - Marker synthesizes 3 kg from diosgenin from cabeza de negro (Dioscorea mexicana), uses 2 kg to found Syntex
    • 1945 _$18.00/g
    • 1947 _$12.00/g
    • 1949 __$3.00/g - Marker discovers barbasco (Dioscorea composita) diosgenin yield is 3 to 5 times higher than cabeza de negro
    • 1951 __$1.75/g
    • 1951 __$0.48/g - July: Syntex accepts 10 ton order from Upjohn (to produce cortisone by fermentation process)
    • 1957 __$0.15/g
    • 1968 __$0.08/g
  • Progesterone price (as a pharmaceutical, wholesale) (2)
    • 1943 $300.00/g
    • 1946 $100.00/g
    • 1951 _$45.00/g
  • Progesterone price (as a pharmaceutical, retail) (2)
    • 1951 _$90.00/g
  1. Gereffi G (1978). Drug firms and dependency in Mexico: the case of the steroid hormone industry. Int Organ. 32(1):237-86.[4]
  2. (May 1951). Mexican hormones. Fortune. 43(5):86-90, 161-2, 166, 168.

68.255.26.37 10:39, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] James Sumner Julian III (1940-2003)

A talented businessman and salesman, James Sumner Julian III was able to put his extensive knowledge to good use in various endeavors. In 1971, he and wife, Pat, opened A "N" J Printing Center, named after their daughters, Angela, Jacquelyn and Nicole. He went on to teach graphic arts in the Baltimore City school system. He possessed a passion for cars and spent many hours rebuilding and modifying engines as a hobby. Because of his thorough knowledge of automobiles, coupled with his sales expertise, he became a successful car salesman. [1]

[edit] Phantom references removed

I have reverted back to a stable version devoid of phantom references. Remember the article has passed GA review and is being brought to FA status. Please discuss changes here. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) 02:47, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

  • Please explain unwarranted reversion of well-sourced contribution to "Steroids" section of article unjustifiably labeled as "vandalism".
  • Please explain in what way the following are "phantom references":
  1. Applezweig, Norman (1962). Steroid drugs. New York: Blakiston Division, McGraw-Hill, pp. vii-xi, 9-83.
  2. Peterson DH, Murray, HC (Apr 5, 1952). "Microbiological oxygenation of steroids at carbon 11". J Am Chem Soc 74(7):1871-2.
  3. Gibbons, Roy (Sep 30, 1949). "Science gets synthetic key to rare drug; discovery is made in Chicago". Chicago Tribune, p.1.
  4. (Dec 2, 1953). "Julian leaves Glidden; will head own firm". Chicago Tribune, p. C6.
  5. (Jan 6, 1963). "Julian aids mankind with his knowledge". Chicago Tribune, p. 1.
  6. Shurtleff, William; Aoyagi, Akiko (2004). "History of the Glidden Company's Soya Products / Chemurgy Division". The Soy Daily.
If a contribution needs copy-editing for brevity or style (which may well be the case), please comment, but do not summarily delete good faith efforts to improve the accuracy and completeness of the article.
69.208.173.138 05:12, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
You are editing anonymously so I don't know if it is one person or if three people are editing. If I had a clue what you were trying to write I would fix it, but you keep deleting a big chunk of existing text and inserting other text with a phantom reference written as "[1]". MY only choice is to revert back to a stable version. I am going to keep reverting it as vandalism, because the changes the editor is making are vandalizing the article that has already reached Good Article status. Perhaps you should add one bit of new information at a time without deleting chunks of existing text. There are three anon IP addresses editing, so I have no clue if one is yours or all three are yours, or even if you are the person making the changes.

You could discuss the changes here and they can be made by someone with more experience. You may also not be the person introducing the errors, but if you add info after the article is vandalized and don't fix it, your changes will get rolled back with the revision to the stable version. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) 21:02, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

I have partially reinstated most of 69.208.173.138's contributions, as they were made in good faith and are apparently a well-sourced expansion upon the existing text. The vandalism was actually added by a different IP, as can be seen from the page history. I may be wrong, but please review the additions, and do not take all anon edits to be vandalism—most of us established WP editors, if I may include myself in this category, were anons once :) Fvasconcellos 22:12, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
It looks perfect now, and the additions are excellent. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) 22:59, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] 141.149.208.54

Yes, its 141.149.208.54 that keeps vandalizing the article perhaps unintentionally. They delete large blocks of text and keep adding phantom references cutting and pasting their previous errors over and over again. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) 15:48, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Breaking the Syntex monopoly

This Wikipedia article is the only biography of Percy Julian that cites "breaking the Syntex monopoly" as his most important contribution to mankind. This seems to be a misconception inferred from a TV show dramatization of his life. 69.208.201.232 23:32, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] PBS.org external links removed?

Is there a reason why the three external links to PBS.org were removed? The NOVA program is cited repeatedly, but it still seems useful to have a link to it in the external links section. A link to a short biography from the Science Odyssey web site was also removed. --Pdpinch 16:19, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] GA Sweep Review

Re-reviewing the article on 29 August 2007 to insure that it continues to meet the GA criteria. This article passes, and will be kept listed. There is a minor issue in that, in the lead, it mentions that, "his chemical synthesis of human steroids from plant steroid precursors would lay the foundation for the first birth control pill and cortisone." While the article's 'steroids' subsection discusses this, it doesn't really tie-in to the first birth control pill, and the first birth control bit in the lead is unsourced. So this ought to be fixed. But other than that, I don't see a significant reason to delist this article. Cheers! Dr. Cash 15:32, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

The source for this article's two introductory paragraphs, including the inaccurate and misleading statement:

...his chemical synthesis of human steroids from plant steroid precursors would lay the foundation for the first birth control pill and cortisone.

is cited at the end of the two paragraphs—it is from the February 2007 NOVA television program dramatization of Julian's life:
NOVA Forgotten Genius PBS airdate February 6, 2007 transcript

NARRATOR: Within a year, Julian would face a new challenge: his rival, Russell Marker, had discovered a giant yam in Mexico. It was even richer in steroids than soybeans. In 1944, Marker and two partners formed a company called Syntex to make hormones from the yam. For the rest of the decade, Syntex and Glidden would produce most of the world's supply of artificial sex hormones.

  • In the 1940s, a large U.S. corporation, The Glidden Company, and a small Mexican corporation, Syntex (founded by Russell Marker), were the largest sellers of progesterone in bulk as an intermediate to pharmaceutical companies, but their sales were very limited because the European pharmaceutical companies that produced progesterone from animal sources (and had formed a cartel in the 1930s that cross-licensed their patents to each other) controlled the wholesale and retail pharmaceutical market for progesterone for clinical use.
  • In 1952, Glidden stopped producing progesterone from soybeans, and instead imported progesterone from the small Mexican corporation, Dioysnth (founded by Russell Marker).
  • 1n 1953, Glidden left the steroid hormone business which had for years been relatively unprofitable for Glidden.

NARRATOR: The work of Julian and Marker would lay the foundation for a whole new class of medicines, including the birth control pill and a wonder drug that would soon take the world by storm.

  • Most histories of the Pill devote at least a few paragraphs, and sometimes an entire chapter, to Russell Marker and Syntex because of their important roles in its development.
  • No histories of the Pill even mention in passing Percy Julian because he played no role in its development.
  • Percy Julian made significant contributions to improving processes used in the synthesis of cortisone and other corticosteroids.
  • Russell Marker had left chemistry by the time improved processes were being developed for the synthesis of cortisone and other corticosteroids (though when Upjohn first developed their breakthrough fermentation synthesis of cortisone, Syntex was the only company in the world then able to cost-effectively supply the tons of progesterone needed as input to Upjohn's fermentation process).
Lynn4 22:24, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Removed

  • "Julian's first major chemical breakthrough resulted in the production of oral contraceptives and steroids for widespread medicinal use. Modern hormonal therapy is made possible by his chemistry."

[2] The above comes from Temple University, but he made a "chemical breakthrough", not a "medical one". "resulted in the production of oral contraceptives and steroids for widespread medicinal use." Syntex had already produced steroids from the Mexican Yam that were being used by Upjohn. The soy sterols were a second pathway, and not an efficient one. He would abandon soy and build a plant to process yams in Mexico to compete directly with Syntex. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) 02:22, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Inconsistency in Article

In the intro it says that Dr. Julian was the second African-American to obtain a Ph.D. in chemistry. Later in the article it says that he was the third to do so (and the article then gives the names of the first two to earn a Ph.D. in chemistry). I have no idea which is correct. Could someone clarify please?134.243.211.185 (talk) 23:45, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Good point, the sources don't solve the problem, one of the two references for the second entry says nothing about the matter and the other is no longer available. Since the second names names, it's probably the right one but I don't know for sure. I'm changing the language to "one of the first" until we can get verification on sequence.--Doug.(talk • contribs) 06:56, 12 March 2008 (UTC)