Talk:Percy Bysshe Shelley

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Does the construction "Mary and Shelly" strike anyone else as weird?

This sentence really amused me:

"A few weeks after her body was recovered from the Serpentine River in London's Hyde Park, Shelley and Mary Godwin were married."

With the sentence before it, it makes a little more sense, however sentences are supposed to make complete sense on their own; i.e. not use pronouns referring to nouns not yet referred to in the sentence in question

I question the validity of this.

It's also rather funny.

Did you know that you can edit the article to fix it? Just click on "Edit this page" when you are viewing the article page.—Eloquence 07:30, Feb 26, 2004 (UTC)

Contents 1 Clarification Needed 2 Pisa Landlocked 3 His name 4 Death 5 new section 6 "Scholarly Magazine" ? 7 Expulsion from Oxford 8 Peculiar in medias res biography 9 Orientalism 10 Gay 11 What does this mean? 12 Shelly's Cremation 13 Introduction 14 American Revolution 15 neutrality

[edit] Clarification Needed

In addition to the use of pronouns mentioned in the previous topic, this article features a lot of discussion of Marys, Wollstonecrafts, and Godwins, and it's not always clear who is being referenced. Furthermore, I'd appreciate some comment on Shelley's habit of marrying--is he divorcing first, is he consistently abandoning his previous wife, or is he exercising polygamy in line with his free love values? Will need outside references to clean these up.

Um, he wasn't in the habit of marrying. He only married twice, and that was only because he felt he had to. Why and how and all of that is a really complex issue.

[edit] Pisa Landlocked

I deleted Pisa from the drowning segment, as Shelley was not sailing from Pisa, nor could he have done so.

[edit] His name

I've always wondered about this. We tend to refer to him by his full name rather than just Percy Shelley. Is this because he always used his full name, or some other reason? JackofOz 09:18, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

From everything I've ever seen, he signed papers (especially poems) using his full name. I think today some people leave out his middle name because they either don't know how to pronounce it or are too lazy. Many scholars today, however, simply refer to him as Shelley, and Mary Shelley as Mary Shelley or Mary. I've also read that during his own lifetime, people called him by his last name.

In the book Shelley and His World, it says that he was commonly referred to by his middle name rather than Percy. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.110.72.75 (talk) 18:17, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Death

Added a few sentences about the Julian Rathbone novel which explains Shelley's death as murder by the English government, not sure if it's a valid inclusion or not. what do people think? Also, I understood that Shelley couldn't swim. which obviously didn't help when his boat sunk. This is not mentioned in the article, does anyone know if this is a proven fact??Paul75 20:29, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

To be completely honest, I think the whole "assassination" part of this biography is bunk and sounds more like a half-hearted conspiracy theory. While I don't suppose we'd be able to ever prove or de-prove he couldn't swim, that's what I've always read.

If the novel is significant, it can be mentioned in some sort of section about Shelley's appearance in popular culture. It should not be mentioned as a serious theory on Shelley's death. john k 01:58, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

Another point brought up - who was Shelley's major influence? We had a discussion in a class at one point about how Shelley could swim very well, and that perhaps his death may have been suicide, in some sort of realization that his greatness could not be attained in comparison to ....... ? Fill in the blank there, I just remember talking about it. Zchris87v 06:56, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] new section

have just made a new section for the Rathbone novel, as per suggestion. There are a lot of scattered references to Shelley in popular literature; it would be nice to reference the major ones here. I know Swinburne and Browning referred to him on several occasions. A section on Shelley and the Chartist movement would also be a good idea. Will dig up my ancient abortive Ph.D. notes and construct one. -- Rimi 07:42, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Although "The Difference Engine" is one of my favorite science fiction novels, I don't know that it is appropriate to mention that an imaginary alternate-universe Shelley appears the book. John Keats. for instance, has an even larger part to play in that novel. But I'm not sure it would be a good thing to mention every fictional appearance by Keats (such as in Thornton Wilder's "The Cabala," in Anthony Burgess' "ABBA ABBA," in Dan Simmons' "Endymion," etc.) in an encyclopedia article about him. It tends to clutter up what should be straight biography. Such details are certainly of interest. But they might be included in a sidebar or in a separate article. George Weinberg-Harter (talk) 20:28, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] "Scholarly Magazine" ?

What "scholarly magazine" in Serbia claimed their was enough evidence that Shelley was killed by the British govt? - Anon 6:12PM EST 11/18/2006

Isn't Shelley dead well before Chartism becomes prominent, thus eliminating one reason for his supposed "assassination" by the government.

[edit] Expulsion from Oxford

I notice this page makes no notice of his expulsion from Oxford University, as retaliation for a paper he wrote, titled, "The Necessity of Atheism." This seems to be a noteworthy and significant event from his life. Unfortunately, I have neither the time nor the talent, I fear, to add it myself. Could somebody do this? - Anon 04:06, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

This information was restored from the 07:59, 1 December 2006 Glen S version. (See comment below.) Bear475 20:22, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Peculiar in medias res biography

The "Biography" section begins "In the summer of 1816, Ciera and Mary made a second trip to Switzerland." What? Who the heck is Ciera? Why does the Biography begin when Shelley is twenty-four? I would think a full rewrite is needed. Dybryd 21:19, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Quite a bit of text was deleted at the beginning of the article (apparently by vandals) after December 1, 2006. I have restored as much as I could. It appears the version of 07:59, 1 December 2006 Glen S is the most complete, but there have been a few valid additions since then. I decided not to just revert back to that version. Bear475 20:13, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Orientalism

Edward Said mentions Shelley as being an imperialist in his study Orientalism. Should a section be written up on Shelley's possible racism? If no one objects I will add the facts to the article. --Teetotaler

1) Imperialism and racism do not constitute the same thing!

2) Said would say that wouldn't he! This is supposed to be a biography dealing in facts & not opinions!

3) If you were to open a section on "possible racism" here then it's likely a section of a similar nature would have to be opened up on the pages of an awful lot of people i.e. 99.9% of people worldwide born before, say 1950 and a hell of alot of those born since! - Ridiculous!

4) Shelley was known for what at the time would have been described as extreme liberalism. Most of his known views cut against the grain of his own society at the time; He was a socialist in his politics at a time of severe conservatism, he was an atheist at a time of severe theism.

Shelley wasn't necessarily an atheist. He just called for the necessity of atheism as a call to skepticism, to critique, to truth. Shelley--if you want to put some sort of label on him--was wholly anti-religion, for religions' claims to an absolute ideology.-FM (talk) 08:52, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

I take your point! Perhaps then an Anti-theist? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.9.54.188 (talk) 16:55, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

No. I don't have it in front of me right now, but in the "Notes to Queen Mab", he says that he is in no way arguing against the existence of some sort of divine force in the universe, which he thinks is a completely reasonable belief, but doesn't indicate whether he subscribes to it or not. I think Shelley today would have called himself an agnostic. So no he wasn't against the idea of God; he was just against the oppressive nature of religion in the 19th century. Read, say, "Prometheus Unbound". It's all about the problems of ideology. Think of it this way: Shelley had great respect for Jesus as an ethical figure and philosopher. On the other hand he couldn't stand Christianity, which he saw as a perversion of Christ's rather radical ethics and politics. Shelley's first and foremost concern is the individual's autonomy in all matters. Much like Blake, who needless to say, read the Bible literally. -FM (talk) 07:23, 17 February 2008 (UTC)-FM

[edit] Gay

because of his gay appearance?!?! i think androgynous is a better word to use in this case.IleanaCosanziana 01:00, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

PS seems to have been responsible for a large amount of pregnancies. Of course we'll never find out for sure because such things were always hushed up in those years. Either way, he probably got a lot more action (with women that is) than any of you.-FM (talk) 08:47, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] What does this mean?

What exactly does the sentence Fanny Imlay, Mary Godwin's half-sister and a member of Godwin's household, in late autumn mean? I am assuming, since it is about "tragedies marring", something tragic happened, but since I am not familiar with Shelley's life, I have no idea what this means. Vaguely 20:26, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Found another one: Many believe his death was not accidental. Some say that Shelley was depressed in those days and that he wanted to  ; The suspense is killing me. I assume, again, it means he wanted to die, but verification would be spectacular.Vaguely 20:29, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Shelly's Cremation

I've read (but can not recall where) that Shelly was burned on the shore not by his wish or his friends, but according to an Italian law: for reasons of health corpses found on the beach were to be burnt.Saxophobia 13:37, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Introduction

He is famous for much more than just his relationship with Keats and Byron. In fact he hardly had a friendship with Keats at all, though he and Byron were close. Just because they were all comtemporaries doesn't mean they were BFFs. 68.92.9.128 23:55, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Shelley and Keats were much more than contemporaries; they pursued complementary poetic programs. Shelley actively supported Keats' work, even as Byron attacked it. Ever hear of Shelley's poem Adonaïs? It's an elegy (among a million other things) for Keats.-FM (talk) 07:46, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] American Revolution

This line really cracked me up: "Percy Shelley's writing significantly influenced the American Revolution." He wasn't born until 1792 - far after the American revolution. Where did the writer get this crap from? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.136.195.248 (talk) 16:55, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] neutrality

It is well known that Shelley was a man of dubious character. The article doesn't reflect that. It doesn't even come close to reflecting it. What shall we do?

I will edit the article the best way I know how, and you tell me what you think. --VKokielov (talk) 12:59, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Why is it that any discussion of Shelley is as timid and cowardly as he must have been? The tendentiousness of the article is in the way it spreads the arguments of the other side in a way such that no one who reads them believes them. In view of this here is what I think we ought to do: let's take all the damning evidence with citations and separate it from the redeeming evidence. I've removed the pov tag. --VKokielov (talk) 13:19, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

This is nonsense. Victorian poets and critics and conservative literary figures such as T.S. Eliot had their moment in Shelley studies. Their moment is past. It was not until the 1950s that people began to read Shelley again with an open mind, taking his POETRY and not his PERSONAL life as the measure of his importance as a POET.-FM (talk) 20:23, 7 June 2008 (UTC)FM