Talk:Percussion instrument

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This article is part of WikiProject Percussion, a group of Wikipedians interested in systematically organizing all the information in Wikipedia related to percussion. This project's focus is to centralize the efforts of many Wikipedians to make Wikipedia the best free resource when it comes to information about the subject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks.

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[edit] Move request

This article has been renamed as the result of a move request. Percussion → Percussion instrument Ensuing discussion has been removed...look in this page's history to view the discussion.

[edit] Revision to the opening sentence

A percussion instrument can be any object which produces a sound by being struck with an implement, shaken, rubbed, scraped, or by any other action which sets the object into vibration. (emphasis added)

I'm not quite happy with the "by any other action which sets the object into vibration" part, because that would mean even stringed instruments and wind instruments are percussion instruments. Can we be more specific? -- FrostytheSnowman ^'sup? 12:58, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

• Response: I understand the concern. However I think that the definition is accurate and doesn't require a change -- here's my perspective:

• • String instruments and Wind instruments are exempt from this definition simply because popular opinion and the common understanding is that 'rubbing the strings' or 'blowing through the chamber' of those instruments are the primary methods of producing sound on those instruments -- and therefore they are grouped into "string" and "wind" categories by popular opinion. In other words, very few people will confuse a saxophone or a violin with a percussion instrument regardless of the definition we publish on this page.
  • Furthermore, I don't see a better alternative definition. (I'm open to hearing suggestions as to how this part of the statement can be improved -- but as of yet, there's no alternative suggestion to consider.)
  • Next... whatever statement is made, or if the existing statement is altered in the future, it needs to be broad and all-inclusive because there are virtually no limits on the methods of producing sound with any object. If you hit a violin with a stick it's not being used in a manner that we commonly associate with string instruments (although the strings will vibrate and resonate within the body much like they do when a violinist rubbs a bow across the strings). And...what if you rub a drumstick against the strings? Is it a string instrument or a percussion instrument? Does it in fact matter what implement is used to activate the string and set it into motion?
  • And last...(although this might be the most contraversial issue): I'd suggest that, at the most fundamental level, string instruments and wind instruments could (arguably) be considered to be "percussion instruments"...
    • blowing into a saxophone causes the reed to vibrate...but a vibrating reed doesn't create sound in and of itself. Instead, the reed is actually striking (in a percussive sense) against the air which surrounds it -- and when this activity occurs repeatedly (perhaps 440 times per second) then the resultant sound is a recognizable pitch ('A' 440).
    • rubbing horsehair against a string causes the string to vibrate (by the physical attributes of friction and inertia)...but again a vibrating string doesn't create sound in and of itself. (Imagine playing a violin in a perfect vacuum like space - on the moon!) What is in fact creating sound is the string moving against air.
    • so if we want to mince words, then both the violin and the saxophone could be considered aerophones (because the objects move "air") -- or perhaps they're all percussion instruments (because the air is "struck" by the object).
  • Nevertheless...if you feel the statement can be altered or improved then change it and we'll continue this discussion later.--Regards. 21:12, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Request for images

Seems that the article lacks some complementary images. Can anybody add some? --Pouya 19:59, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Request for citations and references regarding 'History'

This article lacks information about the history of percussion instruments. I've added a section called 'History' (because the article really needs such info) but the article will really benefit from verifiable information and proven facts about the history and development of percussion in human history. Can somebody help please? --Regards. 20:43, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] 'Percussion Music stub'?

User:TheScotch suggested that a discussion about Percussion Music may deserve its own stub. I agree and disagree.

• I'd suggested that discussion about Percussion Music shouldn't get too long or in-depth in this page.
• But the current content under the 'Percussion Music' heading on this article is mostly about notation. So, aptly, this section now contains a link to Percussion notation. This link also appears in the 'See Also' section, which is appropriate and I'd suggest we can likely remove the current 'percussion music' content from the body of this article altogether.
• However, rather than a 'stub' about percussion music, perhaps better use of the [Category:Percussion_music] would be much better in the long run.

Does anybody want to speckle the Category:Percussion_music on relevant articles?Regards. 01:56, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

I changed the name of the section to "Percussion notation," in line with its contents, with a link to the main article. I think it's reasonable to have a brief discussion of it here, instead of merely a link in the see also, as it is an important aspect of percussion instrument usage in many musical traditions. I suggest there also be a section about "Percussion music," meaning different ensembles, which would probably be just an overview to an article; a truly comprehensive one would not be short. That will take some thought and I'm not going to write it anytime soon. Rigadoun (talk) 02:58, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Plucked Strings

Plucked strings, such as the harpsichord, are percussion too, right?

Guitars, lutes, balalaikas, harps, etc., are also plucked, therefore they are percussion.

What do you think of adding that to the article?

• Response: The instruments you're referring to shouldn't be considered percussion instruments. They are string instruments. Some chordophones such as the piano and hammered dulcimer are percussion instruments, but that is because the sound is produced by a hammer striking the strings. But plucking a string and hitting it are, well, different.

• Plucking is like rubbing I suppose and the first paragraph of this article (in the definition of percussion instruments) it states that a percussion instrument "is any object which produces a sound by being hit with an implement, shaken, rubbed, scraped, or by any other action which sets the object into vibration". So by that definition, "rubbed" or "scraped" would be the closest thing to plucking -- but I think the definition may need modification. For example, a violin's string is "rubbed" but a violin is clearly not a percussion instrument (unless it's being played in an unconventional manner). I suppose the words "rubbed" and "scraped" are included in the definition to include sounds like fingernails on a chalkboard, sand-paper blocks, guiros, cuicas and such things. But I don't believe the words "rubbed" or "scraped" were meant to include the act of plucking.

I think it is more scientific to define 'Percussion instruments' as those which produce 'Transient sound' and they differ from 'Sustained vibration instruments' which produce 'Steady state sound'. A guitar is a string instrument but works similar to a drum - in both, the sound produced by a single excitation decays to silence. Now take the example of Violin; As the bow is steadily drawn against the string, the friction between them produce steady state vibration and sound. Therefore Percussion Instruments, eg: Drums, Tabla, Guitar etc.. Sustained Vibration instruments, eg: All bowed string instruments (like Violin, cello..), Flute etc Classification based on construction could be a different one (Like stringed, Membrane etc..). The book "Study of NonLinearity - Dynamics, The Geometry of behaviour" by Ralph H Abraham and Christopher D Shaw give a great insight into this matter —Preceding unsigned comment added by Vinod gm (talk • contribs) 18:34, 10 April 2008 (UTC)