Talk:Penny

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What about a six-penny nail? What does "penny" mean in that case? –radiojon 05:10, 2004 May 10 (UTC)

The cost of a box of 100 long ago -- Nik42 04:19, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

Contents 1 Origin of Phrase 2 rewrite 3 NO MORE PENNIES! 4 Criticism 5 Other Uses 6 For ____ see _____ 7 History of British penny moved from article 8 Disambiguation page needed

[edit] Origin of Phrase

Anyone know the origin of the phrase "a penny for your thoughts"? Is this an American phrase, or did it originate outside the U.S.? Is this phrase used outside the U.S.? Thanks in advance, although I'd be surprised if anyone even sees the Penny talk page. --Lord Voldemort ^{(Dark Mark)} 16:16, 25 July 2005 (UTC)

"A penny for your thoughts" was first published in A dialogue conteinying the nomber in effect of all the proverbes in the Englishe tongue by John Heywood in 1546. Later reprints called it The Proverbs of John Heywood. Heywood was English and therefore I would believe the phrase would be used outside of the U.S. --J. Vincent

Source: http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mpennythoughts.html

[edit] rewrite

In Canada, penny originally referred to pence coinage that they used until 1859 since there was a coin with the word "penny" on it (for pence).

I would rewrite this sentence for clarity, but I find I don't actually understand it. What is "pence coinage"? Why is "penny" "for pence"? Does it mean "Canada uses the name 'penny' for the cent coin because until 1859 the cent coin was marked 'penny'?" 207.245.124.66 16:38, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] NO MORE PENNIES!

I heard on the news they are still deciding wheather to stop making pennies because of the cost.--Cute 1 4 u 03:28, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Praise the LORD! Smith Jones 22:54, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Not entirely true... pennies cost less to make in Canada than their American counterparts. The coins are still in high demand from Canadians...if it does happen it wont be for years to come. -Coinboy

Canadian cents are still solid copper (and weigh more than US cents). US cents are made of copper-plated zinc. Current London spot prices for copper are about double that of zinc [1]. Even factoring in the additional cost of copper-plating the planchets, and marginally higher labour costs in the US compared to Canada (I'm fairly certain, though I don't have a reference to back it up, that the US Mint still produces its own cent planchets, rather than contracting the work), there's no way that Canadian cents are at any economic advantage compared to the US cent. Put another way, the Canadian cent is just as unprofitable for the Candian government to produce as the US cent, if not more so.--chris.lawson 03:19, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Canadian cents are copper-plated steel, not solid copper, and have been since 2000 (they were copper-plated zinc between 1997 and 1999), and 98% copper before 1997). Nik42 22:03, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Pennies are made of 94% steel, 1.5% nickel and 4.5% copper and have been since 1920. Before 1920 they were made of 95.5% copper, 3% tin and 1.5% zinc. Kyro123456789

This is untrue. See penny (Canadian coin). Steel has only been used since 2000. Nik42 06:46, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

In 1920, the Canadian penny was changed, but it wasn't a change of composition, just a change of size, from a diameter of 25.4 mm to 19.05 mm Nik42 06:55, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

You're untrue if you look at the daily newspaper Kyro123456789

What is that supposed to mean? The Royal Candian Mint's website itself says Today's one-cent coin, modified in 2000 to reduce cost, is made of copper-plated steel (94% steel, 1.5% nickel, 4.5% copper). From 1997 until 2000, the coin was made of copper-plated zinc. Prior to 1997 the one-cent coin was 98% copper, 1.75% zinc and 0.25% other metals., and I think they'd know better than anyone else. Where are you getting the idea that steel has been used for 87 years? Nik42 00:46, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Pennies are bullshit. What can you buy with a penny? Nothing! So why do we have them? Even if you save up a ton, who's going to count them? And besides, pennies cost more to mint than the value they hold. Pennies are worthless. --Defender 911 23:57, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

I didn't say they weren't, I was just stating what they were made of. Where in my statement does it seem like I'm saying they're valuable? Nik42 04:06, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Criticism

I don't think this section belongs here, as it relates specifically to the US and Canadian coins colloquially called a penny, and not to other pennies such as the British coin Nik42 22:06, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

In the U.S it costs about 1.4 cents this year to make a penny but in Canada it costs less than a cent. Kyro123456789

Agreed — This could be moved to Cent (currency) — Eyamseryath 16:32, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Other Uses

Isn't there a cartoon character called "Penny"? Drutt 01:54, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Probably. Penny is an actual name, even if not very common. Nik42 04:08, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] For ____ see _____

The top redirects need a good rewrite. 71.252.175.16 01:45, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] History of British penny moved from article

This article should be more general and there is already a History of the English Penny series

The British penny as a unit of currency dates back several hundred years. However, due to a shortage of coinage being minted, in 1797 Matthew Boulton set up a steam press in Soho, Birmingham minting large copper pennies. A total of 8,601,600 were struck. His work demonstrated the improvement gleaned from the application of steam power to the coining press. In addition to the copper penny being minted he also produced 722,160 copper twopence coins. All his coins were dated 1797 and many have survived to this day as collectors' pieces. The minting had to be halted in 1797 as these large coins had, at the time, a higher copper value than their face value. The pennies were exactly half the weight of the twopences. Again, in 1806 and 1807 lighter and thinner copper coins designed by Kuchler were struck at the Soho Mint. A total of 150 tons of copper was used for these two years.

It was not until 1825, during the reign of George IV, that minting restarted. Pennies were minted for three years during George IV's reign in 1825, 1826 and 1827 and depicted Britannia seated holding a trident on the 'tail' or reverse.

The entire mintage consignment of British 1827 pennies was allocated for use in Australia for the prison camps (Botany Bay Penal Colony) and, as a result, the shipment with the coins stored in wooden crates became badly corroded by salt water with literally only a handful surviving unscathed. Most suffered from corrosion and verdigris.

Only two known examples in UNCIRCULATED or 'mint' condition appear to have survived (one sold by a UK dealer for £8000 and the other owned by an American gentleman) with the remainder appearing in poor condition. However, a few coins have survived in non-corroded condition due to a tiny release in England at the time.

After 1827, it was not until the reign of William IV (Queen Victoria's uncle also known as the 'sailor king') that minting commenced again with copper pennies being minted in 1831, 1834 and 1837 (after the king had died). Victoria pennies continued to be minted in copper until 1859 when the Royal Mint decided to issue the coins in bronze. In 1860 the new bronze issue was minted with a beaded border on the coins. This proved unsuccessful and in the same year toothed border pennies were issued. The head or obverse of these coins depicted the young Queen Victoria with her hair tied in a bun. They became affectionately known as 'bun head' pennies and were issued until 1894.

From 1895 to the queen's death on 22nd January 1901, the pennies continued to show Britannia seated holding a trident with the 'head' or obverse showing the queen's veiled head.

1902 saw the introduction of Edward VII pennies and many people kept back this popular year. However, a smaller number were minted with a 'low tide' level in front of Britannia making them scarcer. Pennies continued to be minted into George V's reign between 1911 and 1936. The most famous and rarest of these is the 1933 penny.

There was no requirement for the Mint to produce any pennies in 1933 because there were already enough in circulation. Requests were, however, received for sets of coins dated 1933 to be placed under the foundation stones of buildings erected in that year, and the Mint obliged by striking a small number of coins. The result was to create a rarity that many people thought could turn up in their change.

The precise number struck was not recorded at the time but it is now thought to be certainly less than ten and probably seven. The surviving 1933 pennies are to be found in the Mint Museum, the British Museum, the University of London and two in private collections - see list below.

It has been reported that one example had been placed under the foundation stone of St. Mary’s Church, Hawksworth Wood, Kirkstall, Leeds, England. Three documented examples had been placed in foundation stones of buildings erected in 1933. In September 1970, during construction at Church of St. Cross, Middleton, one of these examples was stolen by thieves who managed to remove the coin from the church's cornerstone. In response, the Bishop of Ripon ordered that the St. Mary's Church 1933 Penny be unearthed and sold as a protective measure to prevent its theft. It was sold at Sotheby's Auction house on 24th November, 1972.

There are seven (now possibly eight) known examples of the 1933 penny. Here are their locations:

1. Royal Mint Museum at Llantrisant in South Wales

2. British Museum

3. Under the foundation stone of the University of London Building in Bloomsbury, London

4. Under the foundation stone of St Mary's Church, Hawksworth Wood, Kirkstall, Leeds - this one was part of a 1933 year set which was stolen circa 2003

5. Under the foundation stone of the Church of St Cross, Middleton - this one was part of a 1933 year set which was stolen in 1970

6. One held as part of the Norweb Private Collection in the USA (the one now sold by Mark Rasmussen last year)

7. One held in private hands here in the UK (this is the one being sold)

The are approximately 12 known 'Lavillier Patterns' of the 1933 penny. These are slightly more common and command a price of around 18-20k. They are not as sought after as the currency coin.

After George V's death in 1936, there were just two 1937 Edward VIII pattern pennies struck. During World War II, due to a metal shortage, no pennies were minted during 1941, 1942 and 1943. Mintage was resumed in 1944 until George VI's death in February 1952.

The 1950 (240,000 minted) and 1951 pennies (120,000 minted) were minted in very small numbers and, as such, were not issued for circulation in the UK but sent to Bermuda.

After her father's death, the present Queen Elizabeth had, apart from her Coronation Year in 1953, no pennies minted until 1961 with the exception of 1954 when just one coin was struck. During the period from 1961 to 1967, Elizabeth II pennies were struck in very high numbers resulting in an over production during the last year of mintage, 1967, when 654,564,000 were produced. This is now viewed upon as being unnecessary as Decimalisation had been planned a year later in 1968 when the new 5p and 10p coins were issued. Decimalisation was effective from 15th February, 1971.

The lettering "new pence" was changed to "pence" on British decimal coinage in 1982. Irish pound decimal coinage only used "p" to designate units (possibly as this sufficed for both the English word "pence", and Irish form "pingin").

In 2004, 530,110,000 United Kingdom pennies were issued, according to the Royal Mint.

--Wtshymanski 21:25, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Disambiguation page needed

This subject badly needs a disambiguation page. I'm dubious if a now defunct British coin needs the main term, but either way there are about 20 articles hat should be included. Johnbod 14:36, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

The British Penny is still in use and not defunct. Martin451 (talk) 04:51, 29 January 2008 (UTC)