Talk:Penny Arcade (webcomic)

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Reviewed version: December 20, 2006

Contents

[edit] Penny Arcade Game?

Kotaku article. Found it via Slashdot.

[edit] Popularity claims

The reference for the statement "Penny Arcade is among the most popular webcomics currently online" does not, in fact, seem to back up this claim. The statement that Penny Arcade is the most popular is in the context of an article about gaming webcomics, not webcomics in general. The popularity of Penny Arcade relative to all webcomics is not discussed. 70.171.53.143 06:40, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair Use Image Tag

I'm thinking the image used on the page needs to be tagged with Comic panel. I'm going to change it if nobody has any objections. cpritchett42 01:01, 7 November 2005 (UTC)


[edit] Characters

The Merch often is connected to a comment that kids should buy merchandise even if it requires stealing from their parents. This is a reference to a children's show in which the star gave similar advice during an episode and was thus cancelled shortly after.

I'm intrigued by this. What was this mysterious children's show? --Funkmistress 17:38, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

It was Soupy Sales.--SarekOfVulcan 00:12, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

Perhaps in light of the Snopes article, change "canceled" to "suspended".--Kinglink 20:19, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

What about the character Hector?

Gabe's cat is named Thomas Kemper, after the root beer.

Twisp is the cat, and Catsby is the devil. Yes, that's counterintuitive, that's probably the point. But in their second appearance, the devil addresses the cat as "Twisp". http://www.penny-arcade.com/view.php3?date=2004-04-07&res=l

Ohh, thanks for the clarification... I guess it makes sense, for Twisp and Catsby. - DropDeadGorgias (talk) 16:21, Apr 28, 2004 (UTC)

Is there any source for Thomas having an MCSE? Thanks, Meelar 19:12, 28 May 2004 (UTC)

It took me forever to find this: http://www.penny-arcade.com/view.php3?date=1999-02-05&res=l . I love fridays :) Apparently, he may or may not be certified, depending on which character you believe. ALSO, it is referenced as Tycho's cat in this strip... but this is one of the really early strips... - DropDeadGorgias (talk) 19:47, May 28, 2004 (UTC)
Thanks very much. Meelar 19:49, 28 May 2004 (UTC)

[edit] "Disambiguation"

Probably sounds stupid to some, but added quotes around the reference to Jesus Christ, as it could possibly attract a great deal of controversy and "soap-boxing" if certain people got wind of it, and if not then handled adroitly. I here hope the change of simple quotes and the words, "in context of", does so. --4.225.18.213 09:19, 7 February 2006 (UTC)


I added in the fact that Tycho is not actually Holkins' alter ego, as he himself has previously stated. And that that is merely an assumption of the fans. Anthony 12:58, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Original penny arcades

Maybe we should move this article to Penny Arcade (web comic). After all, there was a such thing as a penny arcade before this series (the short films and pinball machines of long ago), and that doesn't have its own article yet. We could turn this page either into a page for that or a disambiguation page -- [[User:LGagnon|LGagnon]] 03:00, 1 Aug 2004 (UTC)

True... another victim of the slashdot ratio. - DropDeadGorgias (talk) 03:30, Aug 1, 2004 (UTC)
The title of an article on penny arcades wouldn't be capitalized. — Gwalla | Talk 01:46, 26 Aug 2004 (UTC)
True, but typing "penny arcade" into the search bar brings you to this article. -- [[User:LGagnon|LGagnon]] 02:01, Aug 26, 2004 (UTC)
That's just because there's no article at Penny arcade and our "Go" is smart enough to mess with capitalization if there's no direct match. That's where the info on the pinball thing should be. --DropDeadGorgias (talk) 10:21, Aug 26, 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Overlinking

Aren't we overlinking to PA strips? There really isn't a need for so many links to the same web site in the article. -- [[User:LGagnon|LGagnon]] 22:51, Sep 10, 2004 (UTC)

There are a lot of links, but they're mostly confined to the Recurring Characters, where they serve as handy guide to the characters mentioned as well as some good examples of the variety of humor and artwork found in the strip. NJM 12:13, 5 Dec 2004 (UTC)
It's ok to have some, but let's not put in more than is needed to help explain the characters. We don't need every single appearance of each minor character, which is what some editors seem to be trying to add in. -- LGagnon 03:16, Feb 7, 2005 (UTC)
I realize this talk section is quite old, but I very much agree. I will trim out some of the overlinking soon if no one objects soon. It's becoming very difficult to edit, and easy of editing is one of the major purposes of having a Wiki! —HorsePunchKid→龜 23:18, July 29, 2005 (UTC)
I have trimmed out most of the links from the "characters" section in this revision. This was definitely the most overlinked part of the article. I'll let this sit for a while before trimming anything else out. —HorsePunchKid→龜 20:50, 1 August 2005 (UTC)
I just included a couple of links when I added to the Cardboard Tube Samurai section. When you can link to examples that are directly related to what you're writing about, it just seems natural to include links. "Don't just take my word for it; here's proof." I thought that hyperlinking was one of the main points of Wikipedia and the internet in general serving as one mind-blowingly colossal database. I don't think it should be discouraged. And I hope this isn't a problem. Druff 21:48, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
That's fine, certainly! The problem before was that there were practically half a dozen links for every little bit of information about every character who has ever appeared in the strip. It was to the point where it was getting difficult to even read the information that was there in some cases. If we want to include absolutely ever reference to every character, it would probably be easier to just link to a Google site search for the character. —HorsePunchKid→龜 23:08, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
Maybe move the "characters" section to the end. Jabrwock 18:44, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] PAX

perhaps a PAX mention seeing as it will may soon be yearly like Childs Play.

[edit] Incorrect information restores

Tycho isn't a real person, and the comic is only drawn by Gabe. This is a FACT. Why does this article lie?

View any recently made comic from them and look at the copyright message on it. It'll say "copyright 2005 Mike Krahulik and Jerry Holkins". The article is not lying. -- LGagnon 21:40, Feb 17, 2005 (UTC)

"Penny Arcade is a web comic written and illustrated by Mike Krahulik and Jerry Holkins. It is among the most popular webcomics currently online. It debuted on November 18, 1998.

"The strip features the two authors' cartoon alter egos Jonathan Gabriel (a.k.a. Gabe) and Tycho Brahe, respectively, who spend much of their time playing computer and video games and commenting on them."

Note that Gabe and Tycho are cartoons that are associated with the two creators. Yes they are cartoons, but the names and avatars are also associated with the two authors. (The authors look absolutely nothing like the characters, but I'm guessing a personalities correspond?) I suppose this could be clarified as the current text and bolding could probably be clearer. Sketchee 22:33, Feb 17, 2005 (UTC)
I understand from both reading slashdot's interview with krahulik and holkins that krahulik illustrates and holkins writes the material (ref: http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/11/26/003251&tid=188&tid=133&tid=11&tid=10).
Also, to review the latest comic (as of April 17, 2005), note how Tycho comments that Gabe's artwork is subpar, thus preventing them from winning an Eisner. In return, Gabe comments on Tycho's frequent use of profanity in his writing.

[edit] Crossovers

Does this section really need to be here? Virtually every web comic has done a penny arcade crossover at some point. IMO, none of these are really notable enough to be listed here. -- Tocky 30 June 2005 08:57 (UTC)

Agreed, though we could replace the list with some form of mention of the several crossovers that are done. -- LGagnon June 30, 2005 12:52 (UTC)

[edit] Painkiller

I added a link to Penny Arcade's comic strip found on the Painkiller Website (downloads section) to the "Other Works" section. P.H. - Kyoukan, UASC 20:59, 29 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Marriage proposal

It appears that Krahulik proposed to his current wife, Kara (mentioned in the article) in a PA sstrip This is probably worth mentioning in the article, but more information to give it some context would be helpful. (Edit: This is already mentioned in the Mike Krahulik article, so I'll go ahead and make a note of it in this article as well.) --LostLeviathan 09:21, 2 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] PAX 2005

I've updated the paragraph concerning Penny Arcade Expo 2005, and made some small modifications to the paragraph on PAX04.


[edit] What About The Bench??

From Everything2.com: "The site, www.penny-arcade.com, also spawned The Bench, an 'open source' comic which can be found at www.thebench.org. The openness comes from the ability of anyone on the net to create and post a new strip, usually starring Gabe, a squirrel, and a park bench. Hijinks galore!" That link no longer works and there are no archives online at the moment, as far as I can tell. Closest thing is one guy's personal archive of his contributions (here). I think it should at least go in the PA article, but I'm not sure where to put it, or how to catigorize it! Any ideas? --Schwael 16:17, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Source of FBI letter

I know you may not agree with blogs as a credible source, but when that source is a consistently credible source of Jack's letters, mainly because Jack CC's the site's author on a regular basis, I think it qualifies as credible.

The livejournal account in question is the site of the http://www.gamepolitics.com news. The author is an editorial writer for the Philidelphia Inquirer.

For some reason, Jack Thompson loves to email Dennis (the site's author) copies of stuff he's sent out to various politicians, news media, and others. Jabrwock 22:05, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] American Greetings

I did some research with the Wayback Machine at http://web.archive.org and found that they did archive the offending strip mentioned. I won't give the exact URL, but note that the archive date was April 22, 2003 for the April 14 strip. If for some historical value you want to post this Strawberry Shortcake stuff, I say it shouldn't be that hard to find. Personally, I consider it a form of parody, even if it was not in good taste. Example: look at Family Guy with their many parodies - Kool-Aid guy, Minnie Mouse "posing" for Disney, etc. Remember, though, the web address for Penny Arcade is http://penny-arcade.com with the dash. --Geopgeop 06:39, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

I think the difference here is that Penny-Arcade uses their art as a for profit thing. Parody and satire are all good and fun, but not when you try to make a profit off of someone's work. That's all I could think of at any rate. TotalTommyTerror 18:38, 16 November 2005 (UTC)
Except Family Guy does their parody for profit too. The issue here I think was that they used AG's material to do a parody of McGee's Alice. If they'd only done a parody of AG, or of Alice, then AG wouldn't really have a case. Jabrwock 19:01, 16 November 2005 (UTC)
What happened was that AG Didn't have a case at all, but PA couldn't afford a lawyer and didn't want to run the risk of losing their comic. They couldn't hold, so they folded. --Durahan 16 December 2005
According to Gabe and Tycho, they contacted their attorney via the comic defense fund and found that they were not 100% totally in-the-right as far as the law was concerned, and fighting it would be costly without any surety of victory, so they let it go. If you want a cite, find the Q&A from Slashdot. Bjsiders 13:37, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

Apparently, it seems that American Greeting section in the article is quite inaccurate. First off, the picture shown in the article is actually the uncensored stip and not the censored one; the censored comicstrip is basically a black picture with text that encourage the reader to contact American Greeting's lawyers.

Additionaly, the strip was intended to parody both American McGee and Mcfarlane Toys. In other words, the Cowardly Lion mentioned in the Penny Arcade blog is not of McGee's design, but of Mcfarlane Toys. At the time, both McGee and Mcfarlane toys made seperate toylines based on the Wizard of Oz with a more Adult-orientated theme. Lastly, Strawberry shortcake's protrayel as a Dominmatrix is actually a parody of Mcfarlane Toys' design of Dorothy, who is depicted as a dominmatrix; for their Monters line, Mcfarlane toys tends to takes female characters from children's stories and turn them into sultry vixen. For instance, Mcfarlane toys have recently produced a Mrs. Santa Claus figure, who is depicted as a stripper.

--Doomzaber (talk) 10:42, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Fry guys

Are they notable enough for a separate mention?

Or would putting them in the article cause them to track me down and deal with me?--SarekOfVulcan 00:16, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] MouseWax Crossover

I read both Penny-Arcade and MouseWax, and I find this to be rather funny: [1]
It might not be light-hearted enough to include in the cross-over section, however.
Gunslinger47 08:24, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia mentioned

(and not flatteringly) in today's rant. Not sure it bears mentioning in the article (by any means!!) but did want to share. ++Lar 12:43, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

Sounds like little more than sour grapes about a VfD. The comic itself is funny, though.204.0.197.190 15:46, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

Why not mention the rant in the article? —Quirk 17:49, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

They rant about a lot of stuff. A month from now, it'll be forgotten and insignificant, unless some really big trouble starts because of it (more like the heads of Wikipedia make a statement back, not like how the He-Man page is currently under constant vandalism). Viewdrix

I believe the subject of the comic was the scandal about "joke articles" that had that journalist rant about wikipedia being a haven for false information, because someone had made a joke article about him saying he was involved in the Kennedy assassination. So it would be funny if Skeletor was posting false info about He-Man. :) That and the whole rant about He-Mac & Pokemon articles being immensely detailed with nit-picky info because they were being written by fanboys. Jabrwock 19:38, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

His rant is funny, but it's also about pretty obvious issues that Wikipedia's always had. It requires constant maintenence and a given piece of information might not be there at a given time--it's just the nature of the beast.

Ah, didn't see this discussion before adding the end of the rant to the article.--SarekOfVulcan 22:52, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

I came in here looking for just this... today's rant seemed somewhat whiny and condescending as hell. Sort of saddening but I still like the comic too much to give a hoot. Seadragon 02:44, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

I wouldn't add anything about the rant, as Tycho rants about a lot of stuff (unless we start seeing a lot of negative wikipedia stuff from him). I loved the comic today, though I am very tired of people attacking Wikipedia for errors, without taking heed to the fact that people can upload worse stuff to personal websites. Tycho does bring up a good point however, that a lot of first time vistors, upon realizing that anyone can edit the article, don't realize that Wikipedia is 'serious'.--SirNuke 03:08, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

As far as I can tell, his points were:

1. The editorial guidelines on acceptable content (such as what is or is not fancruft) appears to him to be totally arbitrary, and when compared to other articles on Wikipedia, they also appear to have numerous double-standards.
2. A number of "elite" Wikipedia contributors and editors hold excessively high opinions of themselves and their work, creating an air of pseudo-intellectual snobbish elitism.
3. The fact that anyone can edit and create articles places the information on Wikipedia at the mercy of vandals, POV editors with agendas, and those who do not check their facts. This condition places the validity and accuracy of the information contained in the articles completely in doubt. The only way to combat this is by constant third-party monitoring and fact-checking, which would appear to be an exercise in futility.

I gotta admit, I find myself agreeing with him. --Paul Soth 05:16, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

Me too. Avalon Bound

1 and 2 are just whining. 3 is a problem, but it is under control. If ever Wikipedia is under such attack that babysitting it is "an exercise in futility", then we will simply alter the rules on editing in order to protect the content. You're probably aware that anonymous editors have recently lost the ability to create new articles. They can be restricted further if it becomes necessary, but right now it isn't. Melchoir 06:09, 17 December 2005 (UTC)
If you haven't seen it yet, check out the Wikipedia:Semi-protection policy, which (though not implemented technically yet) has recently been promoted to official status. —HorsePunchKid→龜 2005-12-17 06:13:03Z
1 and 2 aren't "just whining". They are real problems Wikipedia has. 3 is not "under control"; when you have pictures of penises that appear intermitently in random articles (like recently in the Moonlightning TV series page), I'd say the problem is not "under control". I'm not a Penny Arcade fanboy, and I can't stand half of their rants, but in this case Tycho has a point.201.235.81.75 06:21, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
Strongly disagree on all three points.
1 is mildly true, but certainly not to the point of being debilitating. The information is there. Some of the guidelines do indeed seem contradictory, however, in the event that it actually becomes a serious problem, the community usually works it out, and quickly too.
2 is no more worse here than ANY other internet community, and certainly an amazingly deal less than the overwhelming majority. In my experience, the long-time contributors often act with tact and diplomacy that I NEVER see among equally highly-respected members of other web communities. Furthermore, Wikipedia's basic concept itself (allowing anyone to contribute) automatically makes it less elitist than any other academic enterprise I know.
3 depends on your definition of "under control," but in the several years that I've used Wikipedia (I only started editting recently), I've come across vandalism very rarely, and seriously disturbing vandalism almost never at all. Especially important to remember is that vandalism rarely has that much of a negative impact at all in the first place. So someone put a MS Paint penis in, or wrote "Hi Mom." Delete, revert, move on. 99.99% of the time, the information is reliable. Try getting that anywhere else on the web.
On a side note, I'm a BIG PA fan, even if I'm really disappointed in hearing Tycho's comments. It seems like he didn't even give it much of a chance. -- Hinotori 11:35, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
2 is a problem that a lot of people run into a lot of the time. The admin community is cool a lot of the time, but i sometimes feel they need to allow time for an article to develop. --CalPaterson 15:54, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
I have the uncanny feeling that Tycho has a bit of a swollen head from having legions of fanboys worshipping at his feet, and having his sacred text deleted by filthy commoners has resulted in long-standing simmering resentment of Wikipedia. He's just parroting what the general Antipedia crowds are mouthing right now; Melchoir pretty much states the sane position above. He's just whinging. Ignore him and he'll go away.
I support not adding info about this rant to the article. I merely mentioned it here in talk because I found it interesting and wanted to share and this seemed the logical place. ++Lar 15:16, 17 December 2005 (UTC)
I also support making no mention of this in the article. It may mean something to us as Wikipedia contributers, but it will mean little to nothing to people who are just interested in reading about Penny Arcade.--Daveswagon 06:35, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
Response to 201.235.81.75 above. -- Hinotori 11:35, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

I don't read Penny Arcade, and certainly won't start now, but point 2 (pseudo-intellectualism) seems hilarious coming from Tycho. He needs to put the thesaurus down. The whole posting seems like sour grapes about some self-promotion he posted here getting reverted. Does anyone know what it was? Pfalstad 16:22, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

These are my thoughts exactly, Pfalstad. Gerry Holkins should be the last person to throw stones. I too would be interested in knowing where his true angst came from: was it the Kennedy assassination bit? Or did he himself do something? -e- 14:38, 21 December 2005

The people who run Wikipedia suck. The site itself is great. The people, however, are not. They make vandalism seem like a hanious crime and try to rub their sucess in your face. I'm deleting the image/caption. Also, what makes the comic so much more special than any other PA comic? I'm telling you, it's Wikipedia trying to say 'ZOMG PA KNOWS WHO WE ARE!'.

Kingpin1055 I think it's a little bit of an assumption to assume that Gerry made that page in relation to some sore spot with something that might or might not have happened on his own Wiki page. Penny Arcade doesn't pull any punches and is out to parody everything and anything... I think he was just highlighting the fact that the system is open to abuse... I found it funny and ringing true. There might be a bit of overanalysis of the comic strip in question going on. Just accept it as a pop culture reference and nothing damaging or slanderous.

[edit] Hidden strips?!

Hi folks!
Some strips aren't available in the archive page, like

Anybody knows, while are they hidden?

--Fellow 14:40, 2 January 2006 (UTC)


No, they're not hidden strips. I remember reading these a few years ago, but lately PA have been having problems with the navigation skipping strips. These two must be among those that are being skipped. I was actually recently at Disneyworld and the tram ride from the card parks really put me in mind of that comic.

--Gary McEnroe 20:18, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Collected to-do of PA history

These mostly pertain to PA history before it hit the really big time:

1. thebench.org which is of course now down, but PA used to archive certain bench strips

2. donation incentives, from bonus wallpapers to...

3. that special project where Gabe tried to draw a John Woo strip.

4. Dr. Linkenstein

5. the old "other stuff" page, with the supposed alaska tourist brochure, the PA flash game, and, um...the PA halloween and PA xmas strips, among other things.

6. most newsposts prior to 2002 are missing

7. other PA promos like a CD containing the full PDF of the first book

Please, feel absolutely free to add to this list. And to dig on archive.org.

Asdfff 10:53, 26 January 2006 (UTC)asdfff

[edit] He-man strip

86.3.214.143 has taken out the strip twice. I believe the strip is relevant as it does show the wide breadth of topics that PA covers and, specifically, is a good example of how reading the news post helps the strip make more sense (as referenced in the article). The strip itself is also a light-hearted, relevant way to illustrate interaction between Wikipedia and the rest of the web (a fringe benefit). I don't see any compelling reason NOT to include the strip, but I do see a few good reasons to do so, so I'm putting it back in. -- Hinotori(talk)|(ctrb) 09:16, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

I'd also like to point out that I removed the statements in the caption that suggested the POV that the strip was designed to encourage vandalism (something I doubt, and has no place in the article, image or otherwise). -- Hinotori(talk)|(ctrb) 09:18, 13 February 2006 (UTC)
As regards to the He-Man comic, we should Wikipedia:Avoid self-references. There are many other comics that demonstate the wide range of subjects PA covers. 86.3.214.143 18:07, 13 February 2006 (UTC)
I think the intent of WP:ASR is different than the way you're using it here. As I understand it, we are to avoid self-references in the same manner that someone would avoid writing in the first-person while writing a paper. There is nothing wrong with mentioning Wikipedia in a third-person sort of way, and WP:ASR explicitly says this. I quote:
the article may well discuss Wikipedia as an example, in a neutral tone, without specifically implying that the article in question is being read on — or is a part of — Wikipedia.
I believe that's a very similar example to the one here. Again, I don't see any compelling reason against featuring the strip, despite a few good reasons to. However, I have no intention of starting a revert war, so I'd like to see your thoughts on this. -- Hinotori(talk)|(ctrb) 00:45, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
I think the Skeletor/Wikipedia strip should be incuded. HotWings 02:06, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
I agree.--droptone 16:29, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
But why? There are plenty of other comics that demonstrate what this comic does. Why do we have to use this one? WP:ASR does indeed state that's it's okay to reference wikipedia if we have to, but we don't have to in this case. Why do we have to use a comic that prompted multiple vandalisim of Wikipedia?
I have to agree that the concensous appears to be against me, but I am no futher in understanding why this is the case. Frankly, I'm confused. 86.3.214.143 16:41, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
The Skeletor/Wikipedia strip isn't in the article as of the time of writing this comment, but if it is added again, I feel it should be kept. Penny Arcade is a huge webcomic, and I'd have thought it would be obvious that - once a Wikipedia strip was made - plenty of PA readers would vandalise pages for larks. Surely it's died away by now anyway, it was two months ago. I don't see the harm in keeping the strip. Unless Wikipedia encourages its users to pursue censorship of negativity towards the project? I agree with Hinotori, the strip should be included. --Gary McEnroe 17:23, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
Actually, it hasn't died away yet. But that's besides the point: Why this strip? 86.3.214.143 00:02, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
I think I already gave a few reasons as to why I think this particular strip should be kept. It isn't just a good example, it's also an illustration of intertextuality on the internet. It shows the interaction between Penny Arcade and other websites without taking up article text to do so. It also shows how Penny Arcade strips are often connected directly to such interactions and events, as is shown by reading the associated news post. WP:ASR doesn't say that we can reference Wikipedia only when we have to, it says we can when it's relevant; and the strip is clearly relevant. The example WP:ASR uses is writing about Wikipedia as a sample of online communities; obviously Wikipedia isn't the only online community out there, but because it is a good example, it may warrant use in the article. In the same way, the strip about Wikipedia shows Penny Arcade's broad subject matter, the scathing satire that they use, and the topics that they often address (internet related subjects as well as video games).
I think a better question is why not this strip. As I said earlier, I can see some clear reasons why including it is a good thing (however small or large), but none for why it is a bad thing. I hate to reduce something like this to a net gain/loss scenario, but it seems like common sense to me
-- Hinotori(talk)|(ctrb) 00:05, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
It seems that consensus is in favor of putting the strip back in. I'm going to take the liberty of doing so. If anyone objects, feel free to come back here and discuss. -- Hinotori(talk)|(ctrb) 11:10, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
If the strip is removed again, I suggest we have a vote to decide once and for all if the strip should be kept or not, and that decision should be final. If the general consensus is that the image be removed, so be it. But at the moment it seems to be in favor of keeping the strip. --Gary McEnroe 16:51, 17 February 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Ethics?

Penny arcade's creators have been accused of having ethical issues lately. Promoting blizzard's WoW, working for blizzard, getting linked from WoW's page, then bashing EQ2, saying they're not "corporate shills," etc. Something like that. I haven't followed it too closely. But PA has a huge amount of influence, with all of its readers...

http://www.squidi.net/blog/2006/blog06.02.php#06.02.18 http://aggrome.blogspot.com/2006/02/aggro-arcade.html

I generally wouldn't trust squidi to be valid in anything he says pertaining to PA. He has too much bad blood in him over the previous debacle. The second link may have some valid points, but he seems to be willingly ignorant that PA will advertise games that it enjoys, and if they enjoy a game, they're going to mention it. --Setrajonas 20:19, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

At risk of sounding pedantic, Gabe is the one who would come across as trying to promoting WoW over EQ2. Tycho appears to have stopped playing it for the moment, but I may be mistaken. He certainly doesn't talk about it that much anymore, and I seem to recall reading something to the effect of the game losing its grip on him. But as you rightly said, PA will advertise games they enjoy, and they don't enjoy EQ2. --82.40.83.157 22:01, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] SOE Krispy Kreme Joke

Since this really isn't going to make it to the page I thought it would be funny to mention

March 1st 2006 Penny Arcade releases comic Waste Sensation. The comic comments on SOE and the recent news of a new MMO collaboration with Jim Lee. Gabe asks Tycho, "What if Krispy Kreme teamed up with someone's asshole to put shit in donuts?" This analogy pokes fun at the notion of SOE and Jim Lee working together on a MMO project.

SOE read the comic and this was their response:

Donut Prank 1

Donut Prank 2

Donut Prank 3

Donut Prank 4

1,200 Krispy Kreme Doughnuts

--Microbefox 01:49, 2 March 2006 (UTC)


I would love if this could be worked into the page somewhere, eventually. Maybe if things like this continue to happen often a section dedicated to memorable moments, or reactions to comics, could be setup. Tigermave 09:02, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Watch

In the Attributes of the comic section, the following text describes "The Watch".

"For example, often, when Gabe kills Tycho or vice versa, the killer takes a certain Pac-Man watch off the dead character, but only if he currently has the watch [3], [4], [5], [6], [7], [8], [9]."

I'm an avid PA reader, and I've followed this background continuity for sometime. However, links 8 and 9 both show Tycho killing Gabe (and presumably taking the watch), which directly contradicts the text. Did PA screw up, or is there a missing watch comic between these two?

Hmm, it does seem like a glitch. I guess it's hard for them to keep track too. Maybe try the Penny arcade forums? --DDG 18:48, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Podcast

I've added a section about the new podcast being released by the PA guys. It's just basic information (there have only been 4 episodes so far). Please feel free to go in and add/edit. Hopefully it's useful as a starting point.--Cziltang Brone 20:01, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] In-line references

160 in-line external links!!!!! Wow, some cleanup is definitely needed. There is no need for a link for every sentence. Remember that Wikipedia is not a repository of external links. I will add a cleanup tag to the article. Remove it once this issue has been addressed. Joelito 02:00, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Complaints and critcism for language

It's a long running complaint by some people on Penny arcade's and some others comics that they rely more on language than humor. While Penny arcade is a funny comic on it's own, it's almost always named on top of that list, especially for it's extreme use of the "four letter words". I think at the very least some meantion of the criticism or the stronger than normal language wouldn't hurt this article. Especially when you consider even with this complaint the comic is doing better than most others.--Kinglink 20:06, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

I agree that they rely heavily on language, but not on what kind. What distinguishes PA from other webcomics is Krahulik's extremely crisp and distinctive art and Holkin's deliberately baroque, ornate, intricate, obscure, and sesquipundalian use of twenty-dollar words. To brush PA off as a "bathroom humor" comic would definitely not be accurate. I can't offhand think of a strip where the punchline depends on - rather than merely uses - a foul word for humorous effect. Of course, if you can find a source on the criticism of their language, then by all means, it should be included. Kasreyn 11:47, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Other Works links broken

Checking them just now. The BiA one is broken. Pandora Tommorow broken. Chaos Theory broken. - SkarmoryThePG 15:50, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] AntiVandal Bot error

To other editors, please refer to my comments here. AntiVandal Bot has somehow mistakenly got it in its head that the vandalized page version with the content from English language is the "good" version, and is reverting me. Please help me rv AVB until the bot's owner sees my note on his talk page and fixes it.

Please note that WP:3RR does not apply to malfunctioning bots. One can, and should, revert a malfunctioning bot as many times as is needed. Thanks, Kasreyn 15:15, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Never mind, Tawker has already fixed it. Fast service!  :) Kasreyn 15:25, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Propose split: List of Penny Arcade minor characters

The Minor Characters section is getting really long and unmanageable. I propose splitting it off into its own article. However, I also propose that we promote Annarchy, Div, Charles, Brenna, and Kara to Major characters so they stay in this article. These five have been featured in many more comics than the other minor characters listed. Opinions? Kasreyn 08:48, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

  • Support Kasreyn 08:48, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Done

Please check the Penny Arcade List of Characters article to make sure it conforms to wiki standards.--Mighty Ozymandias 23:23, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Necrowombicon

"The wombat is also indirectly referenced by the phrase 'Necrowombicon' (a parody of the Necronomicon in H.P. Lovecraft's Cthulhu Mythos) when Tycho attempts to 'uninstall' the Mortyr demo and as the name of a fictitious gaming convention."

As far as I can tell, Necrowombicon was a real convention held by Penny Arcade fans, although I get the impression that it ended with the introduction of PAX.

    • Necrowombicon (the convention) got their name from the reference in the comic, not the other way around. I believe (both?) events were designed as one time parties, organized by PA Patrons (the donors that kept the site afloat during their legal troubles), rather than actual scheduled conventions. Skyeknighton 15:33, 12 September 2006 (UTC)


The first necrowombicon was held in 2001 in Seattle, and it was a party at Seattle Center's food court, and Gameworks. There was probably about 30 or so people there, and it was organized by a group called The Ministry of Peace. They used to have a website, though I believe it is down now. I did a few comic strips detailing the events at onlinecomic.net. Could include those if you want. Chris Furniss - weeklygeekshow.com 19:57, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] April 2006 Popularity

Does anyone know what caused the April 2006 traffic spike[1], in which the traffic to penny-arcade.com more than tripled? Google Trends is no help. --Beefyt 05:08, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

I have two theories: Podcasts, and Alexa being stupid. My money's on the latter. Nifboy 05:12, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] August 2006 Downtime?

The site appears to have been down for at least 5 days now. What's the deal? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Guillochon (talk • contribs)

Must be you, since I haven't had any problem accessing the site. EVula 18:20, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
I cannot access the site from home or from work. I guess if others can, it must just be a major name server issue. Guillochon

UPDATE: I figured it out, Penny Arcade changed the url of the latest comic. I was seeing a 404 error and thinking the whole site was down.

[edit] Jack Thompson in Ctrl-Alt-Delete

Was there not the inclusion of the link to the Ctrl Alt Delete strip that blatantly made fun of Thompson, as well as an explanation? The strip came out when the controversy was picking up speed no? I thought it was created as a defense of PA from long time friend Tim Buckley. As such, should it not be included in the article? Chewbacca1010 15:38, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Notes

  1. ^ http://www.alexa.com/data/details/traffic_details?&range=1y&size=medium&compare_sites=&y=r&url=www.penny-arcade.com%2F#top

[edit] Legal Troubles

there's a whole section on "Legal Troubles" and no mention of the hell of getting the first book out? This would be hard to source, as it's only been mentioned in a handful of newsposts, with very few details, but it certainly seems important.

In person, if people at a panel ask about this, Tycho usually says the publisher got the rights for their stuff, sold some copies of the book, and moved to Alaska without passing any of the proceeds on to them. I'm just not sure how one would site a statement like that. Hewinsj 05:48, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
I agree. At the very least it could be mentioned that despite the comic's popularity, legal squabbles prevented them from releasing their work in print until (date). They also said in a news post (iirc) that they sold the rights to the comic not once, but twice, which might put this discussion into the section about how they now manage to live off proceeds of the site. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.181.186.237 (talk) 11:29, 16 February 2007 (UTC).

[edit] References

I was just going back and adding reference tags to all of the links, news posts, and external sites in this page but wanted to verify if this was the way to go before I set the changes. Hewinsj 16:45, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Otheruses unneccessary?

Cuchullain feels that otheruses is unnecesary and has removed it. I feel that it is very usefull and quite in keeping with the standard usage of otheruses templates. What are some of the other opinions on this matter? Shinhan 22:28, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

I agree with Shinhan that the otheruses is needed here. I only knew Penny Arcade as a webcomic, and without the "other uses" hatbox I wouldnt have found the other meanings for the term. It is also a good short-cut that facilitates user traffic to the other articles without perfoming a search.
Besides, the WP:HAT definition states that its use is still disputed and unresolved, so we shouldnt be so quick to get rid of it now. It has been there for as long as I remember and has proved to be very useful. EVula's sugestion that it is not needed since it has been disambiguated is not true. I would think it is needed even more to help users find other similarly named articles or help users find their way back.
Furthermore, we need to discuss it here before it is removed again, otherwise it would be considered vandalism since its very disruptive. Mighty Ozymandias 23:59, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
I would keep it in. There are other uses for the word Penny Arcade, like the old fashoned Penny Arcade's that the web comic is named for. Hewinsj 18:45, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
It isn't needed because there's no way to accidently happen upon this article. Penny Arcade redirects you to Penny arcade, which is a disambiguation page. From there, it points people to similarly named articles. There were two redirects, Penny-arcade and Penny-Arcade, that linked here, but I corrected those. It is impossible for someone to search for "penny arcade" and accidently happen across this article as opposed to the disambig page.
For example, Photograph (Def Leppard song), Photograph (Nickelback song), and Photograph (Ringo Starr song) are distinct enough that they don't have to link back to Photograph (disambiguation), whereas Photograph itself does.
An interesting redirect that I found, however, was John Gabriel's Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory. One of my favorite comics. :-) EVula 20:28, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
I believe you have given good reasons for removing it, but I also believe that the tag does more good than harm. Its one line of code and I know that if all the pages & articles got a WP:HAT it would add up to a helluva lot of memory in the servers. But here it serves a good purpose and we believe its needed.67.173.148.195 <--This here comments are mine Mighty Ozymandias 06:29, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
The amount of code it takes up is negligible, which is why I didn't bother mentioning it. I remain unconvinced, since your argument provided no.. well, argument. :-P EVula 06:12, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
I forgot to sign-in before saving my comments, so I tried to fixed that (I wonder if its allowed) but it didnt save my changes (so I guess not). Dont want to make it seem like we've got a sockpuppet here. I was commenting on your latest entry, I've made my case already. Mighty Ozymandias 06:29, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
Just to give some background here, this article used to be at Penny Arcade, and the article on actual penny arcades was at Penny arcade (lowercase "A"). Because of the potential confusion and the tendency that one might have to type "Penny Arcade" in caps in the searchbox, we had the dablink at the top to avoid confusion. Now that we have the disambiguated title, I don't think it's really necessary, but I'm not really that invested either way. --DDG 07:15, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Infobox picture

Wouldn't it better to have the logo[2] in the infobox rather that the screencapture? --Mika1h 20:25, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] PAX Summary

  • The PAX stuff should probably be reduced to a summary, since it's mostly just a copy of what's in the main PAX article. Klparrot 07:43, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] GA Review

In reviewing the article for GA status, I am putting the article on hold until these issues are addressed:

  • Unsourced assertions of facts:
    • Penny Arcade Adventures: On the Rain-Slick Precipice of Darkness is an upcoming episodic video game based on the strip. It is being developed by Hothead Games. No publisher has been announced.: Please either reference or remove. May be a violation of WP:NOT as not a crystal ball. I would recommend removing altogether until it is released.
    • Several entries in the Other Works section are unreferenced.
  • Also, the referencing style needs to be cleaned up. Per WP:CITE, please either manually or using the {{cite}} templates expand the citations to some form of completeness. Ideally, this should include the Author's name (if availible), Article/Work name, publication information, and retrieval dates for websites. See WP:CITE for more information. Choose any style and be consistent, but these need expansion.

Please correct these issues, and I will check again on this when you do to see if the article can be passed. --Jayron32 20:53, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Issues have not been fixed in the past week, so I am failing this article. If these issues are fixed, please feel free to renominate again at WP:GAC for another review. This one is real close, and I would like to see it get Good Article status. The referencing format still needs fixing, and the Other Works section still needs referencing in places. Also, the unreleased and unpublished game is probably still a violation of WP:NOT a crystal ball... Good luck and happy editing! --Jayron32 22:12, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Just a webcomic?

I'm new to this article so sorry if this has been discussed before, but shouldn't the article's first paragraph make mention of BOTH the webcomic AND the blog/gaming commentary? It seems to me that Penny Arcade is not just a "webcomic", it's equal parts webcomic and essay. This seems like a particularly strange omission since the top-line image is a screenshot of the blog, not the comic strip. Vandelay 19:04, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

I went ahead and added mention of the blog. Vandelay 21:34, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia policy question

I remember a while back some YouTube celebrities had articles removed because the there wasn't an external source and there was original research.

Why is all the Penny Arcade stuff exempt from this?

To be clear, I have no intention of trying to get the page removed, I'd just like some clarification on when articles should be removed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 171.71.37.28 (talk • contribs) 19:35, 19 February 2007

Because Penny Arcade is a well-established and tremendously popular webcomic that has a massive internet presence (and not inconsiderable influence, at least by webcomic standards). I mean, I could go into more detail here, but that's essentially what it boils down to. The comic strip itself runs on a number of paper magazines, Tycho and Gabe's work has been featured in numerous notable publications other than their own site, such as Wired, Child's Play, the charity they run has been noted outside gaming circles, as has their interaction with Jack Thompson. They have three print collections of their work out. In short: they don't simply exist in a small microcosm of their own, and they have been around long enough that we know they won't fade into obscurity next month. Or, to put it bluntly -- sure, it's not like they're the kings of the universe, but they are of interest to people other than some guys on YouTube. -- Captain Disdain 20:57, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Penny Arcade Game

I think a section on the newly announced penny arcade game entitled Penny Arcade Adventures: On the Rain-Slick Precipice of Darkness should be added. This will eventually need to be moved to a new article as new information is released, so it might be best to start an article on this topic in the first place. Please reply on my talk page: Herkelthebrave —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.231.127.15 (talk) 23:37, 13 March 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Critical Reception

Have they only been praised? I think it'd be interesting to see what people have to say about that them that's negative criticism. I don't mean Jack Thompson or American Greetings, I mean legitimate issue taken with the themes, writing, art, or actual response to the comic itself. --maxbz —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 76.104.197.134 (talk) 04:49, 11 April 2007 (UTC).

If you can find some that comes from a legitimate/reliable source (the stuff at Megatokyo is rather borderline), you're welcome to add it in. Nifboy 07:48, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

I changes Reception to Acclaim. Not to suggest that they have only been praised. But I have never heard the phrase Critical Recpetion. Alternatives include dropping the Critical... DocGratis 16:43, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Introduction for PA

I noticed the introduction states that Penny Arcade is about video games...actually, to quote.

"Penny Arcade is a webcomic and blog written by Jerry Holkins and illustrated by Mike Krahulik. It focuses mainly on video games."

This informations seems inaccurate, as Tycho and Gabe don't sit around all day talking about Halo and Doom. They actually reflect current events in the gaming industry as well as events world wide, not just video games themselves. This should be noted. Konraden88 09:48, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

it says "focuses mainly on video games" which means it is mostly about video games and culture not not always. Go ahead and reword it if you want but it seems to already be worded pretty well. Harlock jds 19:46, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia's been parodied again!

I've just read the latest Penny Arcade comic, another parody of Wikipedia. What's more, it actually concerns the Penny Arcade page! This link will lead you to the new parody. XD --Luigifan 18:43, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Ah, so that's what that IP user just now was trying to do. I was wondering what they were doing... still, they'd need to upload the actual strip to Wikipedia if they wanted their edit to work; you can't replace an image with a link to a image, so... yeah. Disaster KirbyTalk 18:47, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
What's more, Tycho's explanation of the strip mentions a device that's supposedly usable to commit mass vandalism, and simultaneously making it nearly impossible to track the culprit down; or, it can be used to scan somebody to spy upon their activities on Wikipedia. Here's Tycho's post, from the Penny Arcade News Board:

With PAX coming up this weekend (!!!), we didn't really have time on Friday to invest in Virgil's Wikiscanner - that mystical oracle that takes a raw IP range and then excretes a list of that organization's Wikipedia edits. This is the pulsing, possibly Martian device that dished up last week's awesome Electronic Arts edits. I wasn't sure if we should feel sorry for them or not - now that EA is situated in the number two slot, does that make them the scrappy underdog? - but I quickly realized it probably doesn't matter. They can come right out and say "Yes, we edit it all the time," mischaracterize the nature of the edits, and by the time it's on the second page the events in question never happened. People don't remember anything these days that isn't on the first page of their feed aggregators. In any case, the entire affair is talking place on Wikipedia. Kudzu will grow over the propaganda soon enough. Though time was indeed in short supply, we did fritter some portion of it pawing through ancient email headers, scraping for filth on old enemies. Or enemies with whom we have resumed talks. Or enemies who are now friends! Even people I hope to make enemies in the future by my careless commentary must fall beneath the scanner's baleful eye. Like a chugging trawler, we hauled up net after net of treasure onto the deck, sifting it on hands and knees. I'd never expose it, of course - sparking a desperate arms race to find self-serving commentary is a conflict I'm likely to lose. And with the deep catalogue of nemeses we've inspired worldwide (and even below the world, in the warrens of the pale Gambrya, where hate is eternal) it's not what I'd call a fabulous scenario. For us, at least; no doubt, our foes have already begun their malevolent harvest. (CW)TB out.

So, apparently, EA's page got vandalized without anybody's knowledge... it appears that the admins ought to launch an investigation into this "Wikiscanner" device, before the whole site is undermined by technovandals!!! --Luigifan 18:51, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Note that the PA character page has been given a week-long semi-prot cover. I'd say if the same "jokes" here are added without being encyclopedic, this page should also get the same prot (even though the comic in question is about the characters, not the strip). --Masem 18:52, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
Oh, great. I'm being WP:BOLD and requested this already. --Masem 19:06, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
Just to clarify this point for posterity - I don't think Tycho was suggesting Wikiscanner was a "device" used to vandalize EA's page - rather, it was used to trace edits to EA's page (presumably of the NPOV / conflict of interest variety) as having been made by employees of EA itself. It isn't a tool for "technovandals". See the Wikiscanner article for details. Ruyn 19:45, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Merge Proposal for Epic Legends Of The Hierarchs: The Elemenstor Saga

Epic Legends Of The Hierarchs: The Elemenstor Saga shows no evidence of notability through significant coverage by reliable secondary sources. I think it could easily be incorporated int this article, or prehaps the Jerry Holkins article. Any thoughts? [[Guest9999 (talk) 00:26, 31 December 2007 (UTC)]]

I agree. - Chardish (talk) 00:54, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
The problem with that is that Epic Legends Of The Hierarchs: The Elemenstor Saga and Penny Arcade (webcomic) aren't really related in too many ways. I think it could, however, be a good idea to try merging it with the Jerry Holkins article. 144.134.97.152 (talk) 15:36, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
perhaps make it a part of the Jerry Holkins article as it's primarily related to him. harlock_jds (talk) 15:38, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
I agree, merge it into the Jerry Holkins article. --Jedravent (talk) 01:31, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
Agreed, Holkins, but not PA proper. Panzer V Panther (talk) 20:09, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
I'm going to be bold and go ahead with the merge to Jerry Holkins. Guest9999 (talk) 23:46, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
I think that the web site stands as its own entity, like "Terradrive Live". Jerry Holkins came up with the web site, but its content is entirely created by an independant group. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.133.210.230 (talk) 21:17, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

I agree with the merge proposal. It doesn't really seem like a stand-alone article. Alexwoods (talk) 16:12, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] On the Rain-Slick Precipice of Darkness

Should there be more information here? Also note that according to the game trailer, Tycho isn't the middle name for a "Jerold" but the first name and his middle is indeed "Erasmus". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.107.66.60 (talk) 08:43, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

Gerald is Jerry Holkins' name. Tycho is the online persona. =) Panzer V Panther (talk) 20:10, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Bacon robots.jpg

Image:Bacon robots.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 17:47, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] IRL picture?

How is it that there's no real life picture of these guys? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 221.127.205.94 (talk) 10:24, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] John Gabriel's Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory

Is this really relevant information? It has nothing to do with the site in general, it's just something out of one of the strips or blog posts or something. And really, it's less of a theory than a fairly easy observation to make for yourself.

[edit] Merger proposal

The Jerry Holkins and Mike Krahulik articles just reiterate a lot of what is said in this article with a few added points. A merger could be easily done but I'm not going to be bold and do it myself because I'm at work and I've got a few computers to work on. But feel free to discuss. (>O_o)>Something X (talk) 14:41, 29 May 2008 (UTC)<(^_^<)