Talk:Penis enlargement

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Contents

[edit] STOP REMOVING LEGITIMATE INFORMATION

Dr. Laurence A. Levine is a top Urologist and is at Rush University Medical Center. He has written a case study (link here) on how traction can treat Peyronie's Disease and in the course of that, increase the size of the penis. Editors should read the case study before assuming it is spam or something of that nature. There are no commercial links on Blackwell Synergy which is a publisher of medical case studies. Allow users to provide information that validates things and provides useful data. Again, editors should read before removing this reference. Immediate removal just shows editors don't care about the content.

[edit] KEEP SCIENTIFIC CITATIONS

This article is strangely absent of scientific backup. Please Wikipedians interested in this article - make sure it is chalk full of references to scientific evidence of the subject. That is to say, there is currently none being referenced. Personally I believe certain people are making sure to remove any references of doubt on the success of these methods. Please make sure any claims made here are backed up with valid sources and present an objective viewpoint on success rates. If none are present, make it a point to find and add some.Joshua4 03:12, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

YES! "Scientific backup" previously included was removed at some point by ... ?? I don't have time to track down the person but there is plenty of research on all aspects of this subject and references have been given. Why were the references removed? Let's give the public useful, accurate, substantiated information. So many doctors all over the world have clearly shown what works and what does not. There is no mystery. And people suffer when they are misled by misinformation. Redharecom (talk) 09:00, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Added

I added information to the stretching and hanging section about the dangers and history of weight hanging and extenders, including citations. I also added another pop culture reference. Olichiv 16:14, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

You also conveniently added links to your own commercial penis enlargement site. I am unfamiliar with wiki rules/editing but if someone can remove links 1, 6, and 8 I think it will solve this current spam problem. Thank you, Concerned Wiki-citizen --69.121.126.78 23:41, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
Nevermind, I removed them myself. Someone may want to clean the article up if possible.--69.121.126.78 23:44, 20 May 2007 (UTC)


Actually, links 6 and 8 were references leading to a site that provided relevant information on both extenders and the dangers involved in using weight hanging. The site was informational, and was not selling anything. It was also deemed permissible by an Admin.


I added a picture to show how clamping works. Yes it is my own penis. Anyone is allowed to use it on their own website with proper credit. Crowdedcar 20:34, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] vandaised

I imagine this page gets vandalised a lot? It is so gross

A little bit. Just another reason that Wikipedia needs a revert-o-meter. --FOo 22:31, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] npov?

These are almost universally misleading and in the case of e-mail spam, are perceived as disturbing or offensive by many users. -- what users? How is this any different from any other article where "some people believe that..." causes NPOV disputes? --69.234.185.170 18:48, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Spammers using this article?

Just removed from the article:

===Traction===
The only effective nonsurgical method to lengthen the penis is by employing devices that pull at the glans of the penis for extended periods of time. This is known as traction; where tissues under continuous tension will undergo cellular multiplication. The result is tissue expansion, resulting in a permanent increase of the tissue. If the applied tension is too large, injury to the tissues or nerves of the penis can result.
In the absence of citations from credible medical journals, this claim ought to be regarded with suspicion. It might have been inserted into this article by an internet spammer hoping to lend credibility to a dubious and possibly dangerous device. Recent spam (April 8, 2005) for such a device links to this article.

The second paragraph was added by anonymous User:69.225.40.72, possibly a recipient of such spam (since that address has no other contributions). Spammers abusing Wikipedia's increasing credibility as a source will be a serious issue for this article or any other article that deals with matters about which spammers lie. --FOo 02:23, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I have no problem with that removal. Articles like this need to be patrolled carefully. Thanks for catching that. -Willmcw 04:00, Apr 9, 2005 (UTC)

Hmm... I disagree on the matter of removing traction. Not only does the effect of traction make perfect sense even for a commoner - any skeletonless part of body can, and often gets stretched this way (among exotic tribes for instance) - it is also recommended by all andrologists in my country as the only safe and clinically proven method. The two trademarks I have read doctors' recommendations for are Jes Extender and Andromedical, the first one should belong to the original inventors and I have read at least a few medical articles on it. This page has some references to articles, I'm sure there are lots of others: [1]

BTW I have also heard of traction being used to regrow a removed foreskin :)--88.196.41.236 21:42, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Forum

Hello, I may be new to Wikipedia, however, I have had over a year of penis enlargement experience and have increased my penis an inch and half in length and a little more then half an inch on girth by the use of jelqing and stretching. I can see that this page is frequently reverted by the amount of spam/vandals editting this page. Can someone please explain to me why I am not allowed to put in the Thunder's Place link? it is NOT commercial and it is a free discussion forum that deals with the science of PE without any sort of commercial involvement. Perhaps maybe someone can investigate this site as I believe it to be central to Penis Enlargement phenomena. --Raddicks 06:58am 23 July 2005

Here is the text you added:
  • There are a few free forums on the net where many men actively discuss the science of penis enlargement, most credibly Thunder's Place. Which spans a range of free articles, videos and information exchange. Anyone who is seriously interested in improving erection health or penis size should start there and not be fooled by pay sites promising ridiculous claims.
This doesn't adhere to our NPOV guidelines
Be honest: Who on earth really cares about your "NPOV guidelines"? You've put yourself in a strange stranglehold with those nonsensical guidelines. They make no sense whatsoever in regards to good encyclopediatic informative text. Yet more proof how silly and conservatively stupid the administration of wikipedia is grounds for its own value diminishment. 80.126.64.97 01:23, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
and appears to be an ad rather than just a link. Anyway, we used to have a few external links but the spammers kept adding more and more, so we deleted them all. -Willmcw 16:32, July 23, 2005 (UTC)
Willmcw, as I assume you are the maintainer of this page, ThundersPlace would probably be the best place to actually get NPOV information, granted I agree that Raddicks' edit was not exactly NPOV but further consideration should be made about putting it in here as a useful resource. Going to the site would probably offer the most insight as to the techniques. A TP survey was recently completely which is on the way to creating a more scientific basis for PE.

[edit] Penis enlargement treatment (pills)

I recently read a article in a Danish magazine Chili. One of their journalists bought penis enlargement pills, and over a 7 week period, his penis size actually increased, both in lenght and diameter. In the article he goes to see a doctor to make him confirm the penis growth. The doctor explains that the penis growth is caused because the pills contain a drug that have a "viagra-type" effect on the body so to speak. With erection over large periods of time, you should be able to increase the amount of blood that flows to the penis, and thereby increase the size. The journalist from this article describes how he has an erection many times a day when taking the pills. Maybe this article should be rewritten sometime, as it has been shown to work? Of course, this shouldn't be without warnings, as having erections over large periods of time may have bad sideeffects.

I found the magazine again. It's from the latest magazine, october 2005. The magazine isn't on the Chili Magazine-homepage yet, but I hope it will be soon. The doctor who "inspected" his a real doctor, his name is Jerk W. Langer ([2]). --Menkhaf 08:35, 25 October 2005 (UTC)
This is how commercial pill companies make money. They bribe journalists --80.2.175.184 16:46, 2 November 2005 (UTC)


[edit] External links

I deleted the entire external links section as it contained nothing but advert links. If the section is to be restored, any links should be to academic or non-advertisement based discussions of this topic. Anyone can find 20 billion penis enlargement sites with a simple Google search

[edit] Proscriptive?

I think that this page is in conflict with Wikipedia's creed about not being an instruction manual.

Yep. But it probably needs a cleanup, not deletion. Andjam 11:39, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Removal of section

I removed the following passage: However more clinical evidence is being brought up from urologists and phalloplasty surgeons, such as Dr. Richard Wineland of Anaheim, CA and Danny Salas of Phallocare. These two phalloplasty and urology experts have concurred that traction devices can indeed produce enough tension to provide permanent enlargement of the penis by breaking down cells in the area. Clinical studies are being conducted on this device by (http://www.locateadoc.com/folio.cfm/sid/36/id/346192 Dr. Laurence Levine)) in Illinois.

The passage originally contained a link to a traction product (Fastsize). Salas and Wineland are both on the board of that product's manufacturer. Regarding info on Levine's study, the only mention of it I can find is in the traction device manufacturer's press release section. Unless unbiased third-party info can be provided, I don't think the sources here can be considered to be NPOV. OhNoitsJamieTalk 21:02, 15 May 2006 (UTC) Maybe this is unbiased enough for you? medical news today press release —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 64.58.188.68 (talk • contribs) .

I would question whether that article contains a NPOV, but that is irrelevant as the article is about Peyronie's disease and makes no claims about penis enlargement. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 206.188.128.65 (talk) 20:32, 11 January 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Groundless Removals

August 4th, 2006 Update: Moderators who are removing clean and relevant content from this article are clearly biased and are not reading medical evidence. This goes against what Wikipedia is here for. Fastsize is a CE Certified medically approved Traction device. There is more than enough Evidence that it works through clinical trials being produced right now. The evidence is in the Advisory board which includes Dr. Steven Lamm, the author of The Hardness Factor a Best Seller. If a very respected doctor like this approves of the validity of this device, the expert moderators of Wikipedia must have a very good reason for removing the content. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 64.58.188.68 (talk • contribs) .

[edit] Citations desperately needed

I've been removing spam from this article for some time, since its a frequent target. I just sat down and read it. There is almost not cited information at all and the article appears to be little more than speculation, weasel words, rumor and original research. I've tagged the most obvious parts that need citation. If citations are not provided soon, then most of this article will be removed as it dramatically fails to meet Wikipedia's policies and guidelines on acceptable content. Editors working on this are strongly advised to read the guidelines on reliable sources as several of the existing sources are inadequate. Gwernol 12:08, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

A big problem with citations of penis enlargement(especially natural methods) is that there is not much research done by "doctors"/"scientists" themselves because they tend to believe off the bat that it is impossible and dismiss any evidence to show that natural penis enlargement works. However, if you go to any public PE forum you will see THOUSANDS of testimonials and even picture proof sections which really can't be disputed at all. Tens of thousands of men have naturally increased their penis size, even though many medical "doctors" do not recognize this fact, probably for financial reasons(they'd lose money if people could do it without going through them.) Honestly, the best place us PE'ers could probably quote from would be ThundersPlace or MoS PE forums. Sadly, there have been virtually no research on natural penis enlargement methods. And frankly, I think it would be a shame and illegal to the Wikipedia community to have all this correct information wiped. Perhaps you could make a banner that says "No official medical research has been performed to confirm or deny these reports." But deleting is just wrong. It's frustrating being a personal PE'er for years and not being able to "correct cite"(whatever the hell that means) my evidence. Sorry if I didn't go through 8 years of college just to get some piece of paper that said I was "credible." Us PE'ers are all scientists, although it's sad that some people don't realize this as such. My main point is that it would be wrong to delete this valid information. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.112.229.202 (talk • contribs) .

I'm not going to get into an argument about the validity of anecdotal evidence since that isn't the point. Wikipedia has a strong policy of requiring information to be verifiable. To quote the first line of that policy "The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth.". Forums are not reliable sources and therefore cannot be used to provide verifiability for information on Wikipedia. If there are no sources that can be cited, then the information cannot be on Wikipedia. Sorry. The uncited information will be deleted per Wikipedia policy unless sources can be cited. Gwernol 02:46, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

There is PLENTY of scientific research by MANY respectable institutions on ALL aspects of this topic but it's hard work to collect and edit info rather than spout our own thoughts. And the range of medical opinion is extremely varied which is further reason sources need to be given. If professional jealousy within the international medical community makes the use of individual's names a tennis match of add and remove by editors then let's use INSTITUTIONAL references, shall we? Redharecom (talk) 09:12, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] jelq complaint

Yet I just looked up 'cat fight' in Wikipedia, and guess what? Commerical links are right there at the end of the article, no problem. Two of them, as a matter of fact.

Maybe it's who you know or how much you pay that determines if you can have a link to your site on here?

I don't know what could be more pertinent to an article about JELQING than a site that sells a JELQ DEVICE.

There are no commercial links on cat fight, that I can see, only two links to information sites, and one news article. None of these are trying to sell anything, or getting any financial benefit from being referenced on Wikipedia.
Commercial links will be removed when they're found. A link to a site that sells a jelq device would invite links to all sites that sell such devices. Wikipedia is not an advertising service, sorry. If the site has useful (not promotional) information about it, then that information could be put in the article with a citation. =Axlq 14:29, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Subjects deleted

I haven't been here for a long time, and am disturbed to see that some valid points have been removed. On the subject of injections under the penile skin, I had mentioned that some plastic surgeons have used the subject's own body fat; that is true, but it has been removed. I mentioned the cutting of the penile ligament for penile lengthening, which is a highly questionable procedure but that has been done by some people; this has been removed. I mentioned the recent success of the first penile allograft, and this has been removed. These are all valid items. Who removed them and why? jaknouse

That was me, in this edit. Its pretty easy to look through the article's history and find a particular edit. I removed them because they had, for some time, been tagged with the {{citation needed}} tag and no-one had found citations to back these assertions up. I posted a warning on this talk page that unsourced material would be removed. I waited, no sources were added, so I removed the material.
If you can cite reliable sources for these sections, please add them back. Thanks, Gwernol 18:06, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
So then on what grounds do you determine during what length of time the citation needed warning might be visible? Like ANYBODY on the planet cares. They want info, not your crap opinion on missing citations. Use Google if you so desperately need them! Playing God does not make a good wikipedia article. Useless inducement of effort taking, and by doing that forcing info to become hidden. 80.126.64.97 01:55, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] garbage removal

I've taken out this paragraph:

The same month, in a non-related case (but also involving a penis pump) a 29-year old Iraqi man of Kurdish descent named Mardin Amin was en route to Iraq via Turkey from Chicago's O'Hare International Airport with his mother and two children, when a security inspector asked him to explain a 'small, black, round squeezable object' in his carry-on bag. Amin explained in a short whisper to avoid his mother's attention and potential embarrassment from being known to use sexual aids and said it was a 'pump'. However, due to his Middle Eastern accent the guard heard him say "bomb." He was charged with felony disorderly conduct as a result, but those charges were dismissed on September 13, 2006 in Cook County Criminal Court.[1]

It has nothing to do on this page, and refers only to a corny tabloid story for, at best, a tactless gratuitous reminder.

[edit] Added sentence

I've added the following sentence to the end of the Pills paragraph - "Some people have also reported that such pills make them feel horny, and give them harder erections, but again, without any actual growth of the penis." If you search on the Internet you will find that this is true. Being an active penis enlarger I know a lot about the subject. Hiyahiyahiya 13:14, 20 November 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Traction

The subject of traction for lengthening is a very widely used method and has more than sufficient validity to be in this article. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 63.229.221.138 (talk) 06:52, 10 December 2006 (UTC).

Absolutely. Whoever is editing here is either medically uneducated and extremely suspicious of everything, or sells penis pumps and deletes all competing approaches.--88.196.41.236 21:57, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Cite some sources and the section will not be removed. Stephen Kenny 20:48, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
You (or others like you) have removed such sources and citations, obviously! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.126.64.97 (talk) 01:59, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Help Me Out

I'm 17, I am very self-concious about my penis length. I have a 4.5 inch penis. I know average is 5-7 inches. I would do anything for a 5 inch penis! I don't even want a 8 inch one. I am over-weight, and just want to know if I lost weight will I see an increase in size?

If you're overweight then chances are that part of your penis is hidden by the surrounding fat at the base, so dieting would probably help a little. Losing some of that weight will make more of your penis visible (and useable during intercourse), giving the appearance of a larger penis, although technically it hasn't grown, it just means that less of it is hidden. By the way Wikipedia isn't really the place to ask your question, there are plenty of PE forums on the internet to do so, with many experts on the subject willing to help you. Hiyahiyahiya 06:07, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

WTF? This is Wikipedia, not a PE forum! If you really want this sort of information (and are prepared to accept the inherent subjectivity of the whole subject), take a look at http://www.thundersplace.org. JulesVerne 14:39, 16 February 2007 (GMT)

May I post a link to a pdf that has about 35 pages of advice on exercising the penis to increase size (jelqing) its professionally done with pictures, there is an advertisement at the end for a forum that I will gladly remove. I will even post the link from a completely unrelated website so that I get no advertising value from the link? there should be some links on here that actually help people do research on the subject instead of just news articles 69.157.202.130 18:13, 5 April 2007 (UTC)JFarmer

    1. Why don't you go ahead and post the link here first so that it can be peer reviewed? gujamin 18:59, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Physically speaking yes loosing weight will help you see more of the penis length that you already have, for every thirty pounds that you are over your ideal weight ( i am talking ideal for your build, not the body mass index that doesn't take into account muscle) you lose an inch of exposed penis.

[edit] Lexington Steele's surgery

Apparently there's a method not enumerated in the article- a sort of cutting of a ligament giving the penis just a little more- Lex Steele had it. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Awesimo (talk • contribs) 07:08, 12 April 2007 (UTC).

Good point. The ligament-cutting surgery is, I believe, the most common surgical method. I don't have the time or knowledge to write anything about it, though. LWizard @ 08:01, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Penis Enlargement Pills and Traction Devices

While the general population would rather seek a so called professional medical way to solve their problems those of us who have come to disdain unnecessary medical practices (i.e. circumcision) have to do a lot of ground work to realize truth through obscurity. Penis Enlargement Pills are largely made up of natural herb complexes whose concert have proven effects on penile tissue regeneration and expansion. Featuring herbs which, increase blood flow and circulation which has proven to help prevent heart attacks, hasten removal of toxins which could limit a healthy erection, stimulate the immune system, increase daily energy levels, helps the body repair damage which causes erectile dysfunction and prostate problems and premature ejaculation, helps to level out testosterone levels which may have been out of whack since pre-prepubescence, I could go on and on but you see the link look for yourself. The information listed on the website is some of the most trusted in the underworld of penis enlargement and if you don't believe the information found there take a listing of the herbs found and look them up yourself. Sooner or later people are going to realize that holistic health and the vitamins and herbs attached to it are far better than paying a medical practitioner who makes money on people only when they are sick, so why would such a person want you to stay healthy. As far as the information on the main page about penis enlargement pills, I recommend that it be removed because if anyone chooses to, try to find the linked information, I believe it was Flora Research of California ok what the HELL is that all about no such place exists, sure there has been research done on FLORA in California but there is no said institution who produces research or advice stating that the ingredients in Penis Enlargement pills has been intoxicated with molds or fungus. The University of Maryland information cited is similarly bogus I am pretty good at in depth research, I delved into the pages listed under topic "penis enlargement pill" for almost an hour and could not find any information about said topic, it was all useless blog chatter from students. In the future if some one is going to claim advice or research I would put it to Wikipedia that said research has to be verified before it is published.

Secondly let me address the issue of traction devices, I also disagree with it removal from the topic of penis enlargement, Some such devices are considered medical equipment, is one such device who has the backing of quite a few urologists and andrologists, while originally touted as a penile curvature correction device the applied traction proved to not only correct defects in penile tissue but to naturally allow tissue to be stretched and regenerated causing extension of the spongeous tissue called the Corpora Cavernosa which is inherently limited by how much it can be filled with blood when you get an erection, the goal of traction devices ( in a penis enlargement capacity) is to not only elongate the Corpora Cavernosa but to simultaneously improve girth by modifying the Corpus Spongium another elastic tissue designed to fill with blood and the Cavernosal Artery which feeds both the Corpora Cavernosa and Copus Spongium with blood, it's lengthening is directly proportional to both tissues because it is fibrous in nature and hence tied to its surrounding tissue. After all what good is a long penis if it is not proportionally wide.

Well that concludes my rationale on the subject for today, except to say this, I am a man as well, I know what a Penis means to men, our western ideas of who has what and why it is better has been deeply ingrained into our life, so if we can make ourselves feel a little better by adding a few inches or making what we have feel heftier I think we should go for it. If only to make up psychologically for believed shortcomings. 24.126.137.200 22:30, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] prosthetic sheath?

prosthetic sheath, is that something that should be in this article? (Long Dong Silver had it) --83.250.72.30 20:47, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Requests for Protection

Insert Prophylactic Joke Here David in DC 20:05, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Penis pumps - compare vaginal pumps...

I wasn't sure where to put this, but there appear to be such things as vaginal pumps in existence (note: site seems to be a bizarre German porn thing).--h i s s p a c e r e s e a r c h 18:30, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

yeah it is bizarre. (by the way, the rough translation of all those words is

Hmm, if I can use men a Penispumpe that to understand. Even if a woman with its Schamlippen is not content, I can understand in certain measure. Then woman gets herself evenly a Labiaplastie. (One considers the verb gets - cosmetic operations are bought nowadays from some humans like the milk in aunt the Emma to load around the corner). Even if the Pussy feels after annualtenth-long hard core Sex too worn out, the plastic surgeon can there easily which make (” Vaginoplasty = rejuvenation OF the vagina”).

But this Pussy Pumperei… I does not know…

Д narchistPig (talk) 05:23, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] STOP REMOVING LEGITIMATE INFORMATION

Dr. Laurence A. Levine is a top Urologist and is at Rush University Medical Center. He has written a case study (link here) on how traction can treat Peyronie's Disease and in the course of that, increase the size of the penis. Editors should read the case study before assuming it is spam or something of that nature. There are no commercial links on Blackwell Synergy which is a publisher of medical case studies. Allow users to provide information that validates things and provides useful data. Again, editors should read before removing this reference. Immediate removal just shows editors don't care about the content.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.58.188.68 (talk • contribs)

That study is focused on treating Peyronie's disease, and has nothing to do with increasing size in healthy men. It doesn't belong here. OhNoitsJamie Talk 22:00, 7 April 2008 (UTC)