Talk:Pendatang asing

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Did You Know An entry from Pendatang asing appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know? column on 9 February 2006.
Wikipedia

This article does not tell what "pendatang asing" actually means. JIP | Talk 07:15, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

 Pendatang asing was a good article nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There are suggestions below for improving the article. Once these are addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.

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Actually it does — "orang pendatang" or "pendatang asing" means no more than "foreigner". This could be better clarified, though. If you want a literal translation, "orang pendatang" means "he who comes/came" and "pendatang asing" means "foreign comer". Johnleemk | Talk 11:48, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

Is that 'orang' as in orangutan? | Tharsaile

I believe orangutan derives from the Malay phrase "orang hutan", or "forest people". Orang is just the Malay word for people. Johnleemk | Talk 11:48, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Pendatang Asing incorrectly referred.

Pendatang Asing literally translated illegal immigrant specifically refering to illegal immigrants currently flooding Malaysia, with the main culprit comes from Indonesia, Bangladesh, India, Nepal, Philipines, China and Pakistan (in no particular order).

Currently, over 1 million illegal immigrants estimatedly residing in Malaysia, contributing to the rising number of crimes and instability of jobs market in Malaysia to immigrants which came in legally and the local populace.

According to Malaysia's Immigration Department Enforcement Director, Datok Ishak Mohamed, as of January 2005, 309,248 illegal immigrants has been transported back [1] to their home country with Indonesian illegals topping the list at 272,224, followed by India 13,380, Philipines 5,846, Bangladesh 5,601, China 2,729, Nepal 2,548, and Pakistan 2,282. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Suryasuharman (talk • contribs)

Pendatang asing does not mean "illegal immigrant" when literally translated. It means "foreign comer", or less literally, "foreign immigrant", and can just as easily refer to legal migrants. The article already mentions that "pendatang asing" is often incorrectly used to mean illegal immigrants. We should probably have an article on illegal immigrants in Malaysia where this information should go. I might create it, if I have the time. Johnleemk | Talk 11:50, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

The article seem to indicate that pendatang asing bearing the meaning of all people which are not of Malay descendant. The right interpretation should be those who are not citizen of that country or nation and can also be loosely interpreted as illegal immigrant.

Perfect example as can been read from MCA (Malaysian Chinese Association), [2] one of the leading and biggest political party in Malaysia, representing the majority of the chinese poplulation.

In the article, pendatang asing carry the meaning of non-citizen immigrant from Indonesia who created chaos by participating in an unrest at a factory in Nilai and of 153 non-citizen immigrant from Africa escaped from police custody after been arrested of various crimes in Kuala Lumpur.

The paragraph Tidak dapat dinafikan, Malaysia menjadi lubuk rezeki kepada pendatang asing ini. Walaupun terpaksa menghadapi pelbagai rintangan dan mara bahaya, mereka tetap ingin bekerja di sini. clearly mean that the pendatang asing referred is of those illegal immigrant who willing to go through all sort of obstacle and danger to be in Malaysia for the chances to work in Malaysia.

Thus, the article about Pendatang Asing in wikipedia is a clear biased reference of pendatang asing as all people of non-Malays is incorrect as it should be people who are non-citizen immigrant and sometimes those who actually came in as illegal immigrant or alien as term in U.S. --Suryasuharman 04:52, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

To add to my point, please refer to Malaysia Today [3], an independant news site with news article, Pendatang asing Melakukan Pembunuhan or Pendatang Asing committing murders.

In this context, the article referred to illegal immigrants for Pendatang Asing and not the non-malays in Malaysia. --Suryasuharman 07:36, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

First of all, this article is about "pendatang asing" as a common Malay phrase in Malaysian politics — it is not about the literal meaning of "pendatang asing" (immigrant). Secondly, all illegal immigrants are immigrants, so the Malaysia Today article proves nothing. "Pendatang asing melakukan pembunuhan" means "Immigrants committed murders", not "Illegal immigrants committed murders". Johnleemk | Talk 11:00, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
I quote from the article: "Cuma soalan tambahan saya, peningkatan yang berlaku, yang ingin saya kaitkan tentang pendatang tanpa izin ataupun pekerja asing ini yang berkemungkinan tidak mempunyai semangat pemahaman budaya kita di negara ini dan apakah kerajaan ingin menimbangkan tentang mewujudkan satu program khusus untuk mendidik mereka sebelum mereka memasuki ke negara kita dan bagaimana kerajaan dapat melihat sama ada mereka ini mempunyai rekod jenayah di negara masing-masing sebelum di bawa masuk ke Malaysia. Terima kasih." ("Just an additional question, the increase that occurred, which I wish to relate with illegal immigrants or these foreign workers which do not understand our culture -- has the government considered a special program to educate them before they enter our country, and can it conduct a background check on them before they are brought in to Malaysia? Thank you.") This clearly indicates the article was talking about both legal and illegal migrants. Johnleemk | Talk 11:04, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] GA nomination

This kind of article -- fairly short, about a phrase, in specific context -- is one that I find often works best as a section of a related, general article. Moreover, the high-level structure of the article belies its youth. Either the article will become better-structured (and either longer, or moving some of its content out to related articles), or it will be subsumed by another. So I cannot mark it a Good Article yet. +sj + 17:19, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Illegal immigrants

This article is about the phrase "pendatang asing" and its usage in Malaysian politics. As this is not the Malay Wikipedia, the correct article for discussing illegal immigrants in Malaysia is...illegal immigrants in Malaysia. :p Johnleemk | Talk 12:23, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

I disagree. Pendatang Asing simply refers to immigrant, whether it's legal or illegal. It may be used in context of the current article but the term is not exlusively used in such manner. In fact, I think chauvanist politicians have misused the term in a very loaded and disparaging way. It's like doublespeak though a bit short of it. Methinks it's crucial that this article makes it clear that Pendatang Asing refers to immigrant, not the citizens of Malaysia. This is even more so when the current lead section talks of the term in a general sense. I'd however agree to a {{main|Illegal immigrants in Malaysia}} in the Illegal immigrant section. __earth (Talk) 14:46, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
Then wouldn't our purpose be better served by clarifying this instead of discussing the history of illegal immigration in Malaysia? Johnleemk | Talk 16:22, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
Still need to touch on illegal immigration in Malaysia since this article has to cater international audience, not just Malaysians. For a person unfamiliar with Malaysian society, he/she might get the wrong impression by reading this article. __earth (Talk) 04:28, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
While I agree, the history of illegal immigration in Malaysia looks out of place in the article as it stands. Surely it would be better off as a "see also" link? After all, the lead section already clarifies the common usage of the phrase. Johnleemk | Talk 07:53, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Article insulting

This article is clearly insulting Malaysia, its government and the people.