Talk:Pencil

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This article uses British English dialect and spelling. Some terms that are used in it differ from, or are not used in, American English. For more information, see American and British English differences. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus.

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[edit] Mechanical pencil sharpening?

It talks in the mechanical pencil section about the sizes of leads, and how 2.0 is not used much because it is hard to sharpen? Maybe it should be clarified that lead sizes in general are being talked about.
Kalatix (talk) 22:32, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Concerning Personality

Does the preference of pencils over pens or the other way round reflects certain aspects of personality? Just curious why some prefer pens and others pencils, could be more than random perhaps.

[edit] Removed Vandalism 3/13/2007

Removed vandalism.

Neil D. 136.142.153.157 15:14, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ha, ha!

Man! This is written for someone who has never seen a pencil before.

A pencil is a hand-held instument containing an interior strip of solid material that produces marks used to write and draw, usually on paper.

Or a pen...

Pencils are distinct from pens, which use a liquid marking material, ink, usually used on paper too.

Alx xlA 22:35, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

This is an encyclopedia, which will always assume that the reader is an complete idiot. Don't take it personally, prole. -Uagehry456|TalkJordanhillVote 00:52, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] What about Coloured Pencils?!

It doesn't tell me anything about how colour pencils are made! Coloured_pencils redirects here but no information on them

there is even a picture of colour pencils. But no info on them. What's the lead of a colour pencil made from, for example?--345Kai 03:25, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
Interesting, in Canada coloured pencils are universally known as "pencil crayons". The urban legend is that the term comes from bilingual packaging on Laurentien brand coloured pencils, which had "Pencil Crayon" at the top. --68.144.68.238 (talk) 09:28, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Why is this protected?

The history doesn't seem to indicate any mass vandalism beyond the ordinary? 76.202.63.233 23:08, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "Plumbago" usage

It is well to mention this alternate name once, but using it throughout the article is not advisable since it is an antiquated name and it is confusing since it refers to both graphite and lead in various capacities. Indeed, the latin root word means lead. If you search for "plumbago" above, you will find that the flower was named after lead. Therefore, for the sake of clarity, I am changing every instance to something else. Also, the translation of plumbego seems to be in error, so I'll change that. --Vlmastra 15:23, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

What's more is that according to Petroski, lead was in fact used before graphite. It's just that graphite made a better mark. Denimadept 05:16, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] See also trivia

The "see also" list in this article is very trivial, and I believe it should be removed. Does anyone disagree? Burntsauce 23:11, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

I can't tell which list you are referring to. Anyways, there is definitely some nonessential trivia under "miscellaneous". Or are you referring to the references? --Vlmastra 17:30, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Intro sentence

I've tweaked this a bit to be a little more inclusive. I will reinforce with pictures of specialty pencils such as woodless graphite pencils and charcoal pencils. I'd also like to reorganize the article so that it has the following categories:

History
Manufacture - to be editied to describe process, not graphite specific
Appearance and materials - to organize the "yellow exterior" note and various common pencil marking materials. Mechanical pencil, Quadrachromic and other misc pencils will be in this subhead
Trivia - to contain the "Pencils in space" portion

If no objection in the next day or so, I will do it. Mrs Scarborough 17:35, 18 May 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Mixes for different grades

According to Petroski the hardness of pencils is not standardized, hence HB does not mean the same from one company to another (this is supported by my own tests). Hence, the table with theproportion of clay to graphite cannot be valid for all brands of pencils.Dmgerman 18:38, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

I have removed this table today. There is no evidence it was true. I also updated references to other facts in the grading section. Some of the other references were either web pages with little standing or clearly stated that they had used Petrosky as a reference. The current references are now either Petrosky, or two pencil companies: Staedtler and Derwent.Dmgerman 07:51, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] color pencil

Do we think that Image:RossBleckner.jpg shows a color pencil sketch better than the current image? Since I uploaded it, I don't want to presume... --Knulclunk 04:20, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "most pencils are round"

..are they?

it's my (personal) experience that most pencils are hexagonal, rather than hexagonal pencils being only "quite common too", so I'd like to see a footnote or reference supporting the statement "most pencils are round". maybe its an american/european discrepancy, but in that case it should be noted as such.

i do note Theshibboleth's comments in 2005, almost the opposite of what i am saying, but there is clearly two sides to it. clearly the issue swung from "most pencils are A" to "most pencils are B". do we need it to be so polarised? pencils obviously come in a variety of sections, with round and hexagonal being the two main shapes.

i didn't change the article, but would like to see it changed or the "fact" referenced.

Arkizzle 09:59, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

If you want to see a reference, add {{Fact}}, as you suggested. Denimadept 12:58, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Pencil Lead

"Late last week, Canada announced it was recalling thousands of pencils made in China because of fears they were coated with too much lead."[1]

There may not be any lead in modern pencils -- but there can still be lead in the paint on the pencils, all the better to chew on.-69.87.203.198 11:36, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Color/Colour

...seems to be some of each usage here. I think we should use all one or the other. Checking the history suggests that the earliest usage was colour but it was from text sourced elsewhere? The use of both has been here a long while. Barring any objections I will change it to one or the other but haven't decided which yet. :) ++Lar: t/c 18:04, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

I've corrected it. British English has been used on this article for a long time with the occasional temporary change. Jooler 19:57, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Section moved from article

[edit] Other methods used

Australian Natives were using them for hundreds of years by using different colored sandstone grinded so that they could dip the tip in saliva and write of the walls with them. This is how they drew cave drawings of their history and religous beliefs.

I have moved a section of the article here because it has a few problems. It's unsourced, doesn't fit the tone of the article and seems to imply that a liquid is used, making it a form of pen rather than a pencil. If anyone would like to fix these issues and put it back in the article they are more than welcome. --Apyule 07:52, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Semiprotected!

It's about time. - Denimadept 15:28, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

guess what!!! pencils are a rare resource worth millions of $$$ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.57.106.249 (talk) 16:44, 8 October 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Needs Improvement

The value of graphite was soon realized to be enormous, mainly because it could be used to line the moulds for cannon balls, and the mines were taken over by the Crown and guarded. Graphite had to be smuggled out for use in pencils. Because graphite is soft, it requires some form of case. Graphite sticks were at first wrapped in string or in sheepskin for stability. The news of the usefulness of these early pencils spread far and wide, attracting the attentions of artists all over the "known world."

This paragraph belies its many authors. It doesn't flow, has unrelated ideas, and is illogical. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.141.211.24 (talk) 01:37, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Graphite marks

"Years" is correct. I made one such around 1974 and it's still there. - Denimadept (talk) 14:30, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] H-B denomination

I'm surprised to read that the B letter mean black and not bold. Does someone have a reference for that ? --Jeanuel (talk) 13:30, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Liquid Graphite

Needs to be updated with the new invention ( Patent Application #: 20060147252) of liquid graphite pencils —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.145.253.1 (talk) 00:55, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Can you give a resource of where this info came from? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Stealth500 (talk • contribs) 00:58, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Pencil types, other

In the article, at the bottom of pencil types according to use, there is mention of a "penny pencil". What is that? There is a book series about a "Penny Pencil" character, so search engines are not helpful on that point. I remember a time when junk mail would sometimes come with pencils, very thin and short (to be cheaper to mail). I want to know if that style had a special name and what it may be. --Elijah (talk) 19:06, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Graphite reference request

How can we keep referring to the Petroski book? - Denimadept (talk) 20:29, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Seathwaite hamlet is not Seathwaite Fell

There was a time (until just recently) that the only wikipedia article that mentioned "Seathwaite" was the Seathwaite Fell article. An avid Cumbrian hillwalker has pointed out that the graphite mine in the vicinity of Borrowdale parish was on the approach to the Grey Knotts hill, which is about 2 km north of Seathwaite Fell. Note that Cumbria has several places named Seathwaite. The mine was quite close to a hamlet by the name of Seathwaite (the text of the Grey Knotts article separately lists the map coordinates for the original location of the graphite mine, it is not at the summit of Grey Knotts). I think it would be more appropriate for the passage on the Cumbrian graphite mine in this article to instead read something like the following:

Some time before 1565 (some sources say as early as 1500), an enormous deposit of graphite was discovered on the approach to Grey Knotts from the hamlet of Seathwaite near Borrowdale parish, Cumbria, England, which the locals found very useful for marking sheep.[1][2][3]

Please note also that one of this article's cited references (namely this one) does not support the notion that the old graphite mine was on the hill named Seathwaite Fell, but instead mentions Grey Knotts explicitly, and when it refers to "Seathwaite" seems to be referring to the hamlet of Seathwaite (Borrowdale) and not to the Fell. I hope this specific graphite mine location information helps you to improve the accuracy of this article. 67.86.73.252 (talk) 15:32, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Typo found

Under the heading, "Pencil Types", subheading, "According to their use", then under "Copying Pencils", the last sentence in that paragraph says, "There were used until...". It should say "THESE were used until..."

So why don't you fix it? This is a Wiki after all.... BlakJakNZ (talk) 06:30, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

The pencil was created by Joe Dox. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.106.180.234 (talk) 13:58, 29 May 2008 (UTC)