Talk:Pelé/Archive 1

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Contents

Pele style

I don't know enough about soccer to do this, but could someone more knowledgeable please add something about Pele's style in soccer and whether and what kind of new techniques he brought to the game? I think that would make this article more complete.

I'm not sure how much can be added. He was more of an effective player than a flashy player (like Maradona, Best etc) so he didn't have his own style as such. As for moves, he is widely thought tohave invented the bicycle kick, but Pele himself admits the move came about a decade earlier. Sometimes people refer to a "Pele 7" which is where someone kicks the ball up with their left foot, right foot, right knee, left knee, left shoulder, right shoulder before heading it, but this isnt really a single move, and I believe Pele only did it once. TJM

As a brazilian, and Pelé fan, I never heard about that. I should add that Pelé brought to many things to the game. The "paradinha" (stop and go) at the penalty kick, the physical play ("jogo de corpo"), the velocity, the minimalist play, like when he fooled the uruguaian goalkeeper in 70 WC without touching the ball. ARDB

I think that he just changed the way that we saw football could be played. He inspired the world with his delicate touches and brilliant football mind. ALV

Bicycle Kick

The Bicycle Kick is often credit to Leonidas da Silva. He played the 1938 World Cup. --Abu Badali 05:17, August 5, 2005 (UTC)


Can someone rewrite "clinical finisher" in language understandable to Americans? I suspect it means "consistently successful goal-scorer", but I don't know. —JerryFriedman 21:19, 1 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I don't think there is an equivalent word, it means someone who is extremely reliable at putting the ball in the back of the net when presented with the opportunity - a particular type of goal-scoring.

I would agree...I think "clinical finisher" should stay. I also think americans should put some effort into understanding terminology,there is no need to change correct terminology just so americans can understand it...put a bit of effort in...learn.

Yes, there's nothing unamerican about that terminology. I'm shocked that someone would find it difficult to understand! Danielwharris 22:40, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Best, and most interesting solution is to write an article on it: clinical finisherSeabhcán 09:40, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

What happened to this image?

This used to be a pic of Pelé:

Image:Pele.jpg

It's a cropped version of this one. http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422/08july20051459/www.gpo.gov/nara/pubpaps/photos/phok97v2.jpg It looks awkward now... --Zahn 21:47, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

Pele: played creatively, fought ferociously to control and keep the ball, and was both humble and sharing. He believed he could make a difference to the point where even on the bench he made a difference. Think of Pele (Edson Arantes de Nacimento) as the Michael Jordan (Basket Ball player) of Football!! And think of Pele's impact on the Brazilian Team and Football as Michael Jordan of the Bull's prior to and after the death of his father that led to his first retirement. Simply: Grand, Magical!!Somedoby Stop Me, please,. Kamissa!


I'm no expert on football, but what is up with this Pele pic that's being used at the top of the page? Isn't there a better one of him from his playing days somewhere? It's kind of wierd to have a pic of him half out of the frame as the main pic.--67.71.29.148 01:35, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Critics

I see a couple of problems in this article:

  • Ever loyal to his local club, he stayed with Santos for his entire career
What does this mean? He then played for another club in USA!
Pele's played in USA not for money, but as an exbihition to promote US soccer. Prior to that he had retired before. It's not wrong to say he was loyal to Santos. Mandel 14:03, Dec 23, 2004 (UTC)
But it is wrong to say that he played with Santos for his entire career. Peoplesunionpro 23:20, 25 November 2005 (UTC)
  • considered to be one of the greatest players of all time
Should have some reference, such as FIFA's Player of the Century or something.
  • The 1970 team, ... is considered one of the greatest selections ever
This should be in Brazil's national team, not here.
I think this should be here alright, since it is a statement done by hundreds of the worlds best players and coaches, representing a world view.
I think being a part of the greatest team of all time is important enough to be in Peles article
  • in front of a capacity crowd
Say what?
What he meant was someting like "a fully packed stadium", meaning the crowd filled the stadium at its capacity.LtDoc 04:03, 25 July 2005 (UTC)

It lacks info about his current activities for FIFA.

All in all, the article is an extract of a FIFA article who's link is among the external links. Could do some more research, right?

Footballer of the Century

Is it relevant to add the details about the issue over that award, in this article? I see how the actual award fits here, but not the details behind it. Perhaps those details would be relevant if they were placed in a Footballer of the Century article. Peoplesunionpro 21:06, July 9, 2005 (UTC)


Overated

Too Overated

People know that when Pele played he wasnt the best player in the world. He was hadpicked as the worlds best player to represent the good in football...poor boy made good..thats all. Even he would admit that half a dozen other Brazilain and European players were better then him at the time. His performaces at world cup level were fantastic but at club level he did little. He didnt test himself in Europe so we will never know. Over time this gets lost....These same people will one day label Zidane, Beckham, Figo and Roanldo as world class but we all know they did nothing at Real all together. Look at Ronaldinho at Barca showing world class and thats just one guy... SHUT UP YOU IDIOT!!!!! MAYBE THE ONLY TWO PLAYERS WHO CAME CLOSE TO HIM WHEN HE PLAYED WERE DI STEFANO AND GARRINCHA, MAYBE. WHO ARE THESE OTHER PLAYERS HE WOULD ADMIT TO BEING WORSE THAN??? YOUR ARGUMENT IS FLAWED FOR SO MANY REASONS. THAT INSANITY YOU TALK ABOUT RONALDINHO DOING IT ON HIS OWN IS LUDICROUS. DO THESE NAMES RING A BELL ETO'O, DECO, MESSI, PUYOL, INIESTA, GIULY ETC... AND HOW YOU CAN POSSIBLY TRY AND SAY HE IS BETTER THAN ZIDANE IS BEYOND ME. ZIDANE HAS WON EVERYTHING AND BEEN THE BEST PLAYER IN EACH TEAM HES PLAYED IN INCLUDING GREAT TEAMS SUCH AS THE JUVENTUS OF THE LATE NINETIES, THE REAL MADRID SIDE OF 2001-2003 AND THE FRANCE SIDE THAT WAS BY FAR AND AWAY THE BEST NATIONAL SIDE FROM 98-2001. RONALDINHO HAS EXCELLED AT ONE CLUB AND BEEN QUITE GOOD FOR BRAZIL. THERE IS IN REALITY NO COMPARISON. BACK TO PELE AND WHAT YOU SAID ABOUT HIM NOT TESTING HIMSELF IN EUROPE: IF YOU BEAT ALL THE EUROPEAN NATIONAL SIDES SURELY THAT MEANS YOUVE PROVED YOURSELF OR IS THAT LOGIC A LITTLE TOO STRAIGHTFORWARD FOR YOU.

What is the point of this? Im not even saying I disagree completely with you, but he *is* widely viewed as the sports most famous and favorite player. He would admit there is better players than him because he has a value known as 'class'. Furthermore, your jab at Zinedine Zidane not being world class further mutes your point because once again, a huge majority of the world will disagree with you. Karl Friedrich 18:54, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

Pele for mine is overated...but with good reason...his face makes football great...poor boy made good...rags to riches ...we all love the story...but we shouldnt forget his teammates who some say made him look good. pele has done alot for football but football has done alot for him too sure he will go down as one of the greats ...but not the greatest...maradona is ahead and a few others

I do not believe pele is overated at all. How can you say he did little at club level when he scored over a thousand goals and won everything it was possible to win. People say he can't be seen as the best player ever because he never tested himself in europe but this is such rubbish. First of all the standard of south americas leagues were not the way they are now. In fact at the time i believe the columbian league was the richest in the world. also he played european teams like benafica and inter in the intercontinental cup and he completly out classed them. Pele could dribble, he had pace and power, he could score with his left or right foot as well as his head and on top of all this he was a model profesional. somebody before me appears to be saying that zidane, beckham, figo and zidane are not world class player which i think is a crazy statement. just because they havn't won anything together doesn't mean they arn't world class. we all know that real's problems stem from a lack of defenders and defensive centre mids as well as the poor running of the club not from a lack of gifted footballers. I do not disagree with the point that ronaldinho is world class but i think it is very harsh on barcelona as a club to say hes there only great player. i admit that hes the best but he is helped by players such as eto'o, messi, xavi, deco and puyol its not like its a bad team.


I'm not particularly bothered whether people think Pele's the greatest or not - it's a purely subjective question, and impossible to settle. However, I'd like to point out the gigantic flaw in the argument that "He didn't test himself in Europe so we will never know". The annual match between the winners of the old European Cup and the Copa Libertadores produced more South American victories than European from 1960 to 1999, including Santos beating Benfica and Inter Milan in successive years ('62-'63). lonympics.co.uk/scotlandworldclubchampions.htm

Clearly the idea that South American football was inferior 40 years ago is unsubstantiated. Pele played in a league that could quite legitimately claim to be the strongest in the world. -- DeLarge 22:47, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Pelé was a complete footballer, for all the reasons stated above. He not only excelled, but perfected many of the skills seen as fundamental in today's top players - a striker who was able to play as a midfielder, but capable of giving excellent passes and scoring goals with his head with almost as much ease as he scored with his feet, not to mention the fact that he marked, man-on-man , Pelé was an extremely well-rounded player at a time when players were thought of as members of one position, or another. In fact, the 1970 world cup is seen by many as the turning point in this trend. In 1974, you have Holland's amazing total football tactics making full use of this idea.

Speak to any soccer fan who has watched some of the greatest matches and players of all time, and analyzed them to great extent. Ask them who the best shooter was. The tactical genius. The best free-kicker. The best passer. Best dribbler. Best crosser. Best head scorer. Fastest player. Ask any of these questions, and the answer to none of them will be 'Pelé'. Many players exceeded Pelé's abilities in these fields, but none reached his level of excellence in all of them, at the same time.

Furthermore, to claim that soccer at that time wasn't as good as it is now, or that he played in a weak league for most of his carreer is absurd. If you compare his statistics to those of other contemporary players, and add to that the fact that all of the 1970 world cup Brazilian players played for national, in-house teams, the only logical conclusion is that the best players in the world were part of the Brazilian national league. If not that, then you must at least admit that the Brazilian league was still one of the top three, the other two probably being the Italian and Dutch leagues, at that time.

I admire the football of Maradona, of Ferenc Puskas and of Ronaldinho, Romário, Paolo Rossi, Baggio, Beckenbaur, Fritz Muller, Uwe Seeler, Michael Platini, Eusébio, Batistuta and many others. I have cheered most, if not all of these players on, considering myself a fairly neutral person insofar as picking sides in soccer goes. Take it from someone who watched it, if only to legitimize the already heavily-documented views you find on this page -- Pelé was, simply, the best. If you doubt my purportedly subjective assessment, have a look at the statistics. Even by the thinnest, most conservative standards, what you have here, is still a step above even when compared to the names I mentioned at the top of this paragraph. Those were all kings in their own right, but Pelé was the king of them all.

How to Type the letter é in Pelé ?

If you want to use "é" instead of "e" in a Pelé, then use these keyboard stroke / keys :
Press "P", "e", "l". Then press ...
Alt + 0233 (it means, first press the "Alt" (Alternative/Alternate) key in your keyboard, and keep it pressing with your left hand, then press the digits 0 2 3 3 one by one, in the right-side numeric keypad).
Then you will get Pelé. To make it a linkable name (to goto his article,) use two third brackets at the beginning and end of the name, like this [[Pelé]], then you will get linkable Pelé.
If you want to link to his (English) article through URL, then use below code ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pel%E9
or, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pel%C3%A9

Make sure num lock is on. Philc TECI 22:49, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
For this type of other characters, see Windows Alt keycodes. ~ Tarikash.
Thanks for assuming i'm using Windows.

If on a Mac (or at least on mine), just press and hold alt, then press 'e', then release alt and press 'e' again. Ben davison 15:02, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Pelé

pele was a great footballer. ~ 83.71.61.53 (00:56, May 19, 2006).

references

Add more references and help inline cite them. Skinnyweed 00:42, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

More have been added - this cite notice is starting to look a bit disproportionate. Gerry Lynch 14:20, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Pronunciation

The pronunciation of his name currently given -- pɛ'læ -- does not look right to me, but I am not a speaker of Brazilian Portuguese. Could someone who is please check? --Macrakis 19:25, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm not a native speaker of PT, but I'm regrettably even less fluent in IPA. The first e is closed, roughly like an e in Spanish or Italian. The second e carries the accent and is very open, eh, almost like the English e in egg. At some point I should learn enough IPA to verify it, but I can see that it would be very counterintuitive for someone coming from EN or ES. Cheers - PhilipR 06:25, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Meaning of Pelé?

Do we have a source for the statement that 'Pelé' has some connection to a word of courtyard? This BBC article states "The word had no meaning in Portuguese so he presumed it was an insult, but recently he has found out that it means miracle in Hebrew." [1]

I didn't understand your point. But the word Pelé come from 'Bilé'. It was the name of a goalkepper from the team where Pelé's father used to play. Pelé used to cheer the name of Bilé. So he became known as 'Bilé', but his friends couldn't say 'Bilé', so they adopted to a easier word, which is Pelé. BelegurthImage:Crystal 128 bell.pngHã? 00:45, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
Do you have a source for that? (Over the past couple of weeks, I have asked every Brazilian I know. Every one give a different answer) Seabhcán 20:55, 16 July 2006 (UTC)


i read this as the origin of his name recently also, suprised it wasnt mentioned on wikipedia.

physical stats

The article says:

Famed for his pace and strong shot, and exceptional heading ability for a relatively short man

Can someone provide his playing height? i.e. how tall was he during his playing years? Funkyj 17:53, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Here's a source that lists his height at 172 cm: [2]. See also [3] (this ref doesn't meet WP:V). --Muchness 18:05, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
To stop this nonsense here is the official stats from Santos Futebol Clube where Pelé played: he is 1,725m tall: [4] Loudenvier 20:23, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
Nearly two kilometres tall? Stop talking nonsense.

Now now no need to be rude. in Portuguese , and . are the opposite of what they are in English. 1,725m is 1.725m in English.

George Best

Was so much better.


Pelé and piracy

Has anyone seen the new Pelé commercial in which he chastises piracy? The commercial is dubbed since Pelé can only speak Portugese. Well, it turns out he was actually saying, "download my soccer films, GO BRAZILIA!" --Hoopaholic400 17:41, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Position

Pele's Position


Pele was not a striker. He was an attacking midfielder. The number 10 of his teams. The same position of Zico. It's called Ponta de Lança in portuguese.

The striker of Santos was Coutinho, not Pele. And Vava was the striker of Brasil in 58 and 62. Tostão was the striker in 1970 (he was improvised, cause he was not a striker either). Pele was never the striker of his teams.


i agree, pele played in what is now called the hole, back then was inside forward. plenty of sources to verify this, just watch a game with him in it.

GA nomination

This nomination is on hold for 7 days for these reasons: writing is POV in favor of Pele and uses weasel words--it's too laudatory and needs a more encyclopedic tone, and the sports awards part of the references section needs fixed. Rlevse 18:13, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

Failed due to partial compliance with suggestions. Rlevse 23:16, 21 July 2006 (UTC)