Talk:Pegging (sexual practice)

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

See below for requested move. From WP:RM:

• Pegging (sexual practice) → Pegging — There is only one other usage mentioned at Pegging (disambiguation), the usage means "to score points in cribbage", and that usage does not have its own article titled "pegging". There were previously several other uses listed at the dab, but none were upheld in their respective articles. WP search for "pegging" reveals nothing else. — Joie de Vivre 14:12, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
  • "Pegging" has plenty of other meanings: see the verb meanings at http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/peg . Pegging out clothes to dry, level-pegging, pegging prices at a fixed level, etc. There is no one dominant meaning: leave pegging as the disambig page, or redirecting to the disambig page.I see no sense in treating Pegging (sexual practice) as the dominant meaning to the general population who are not interested in odd sexual practices. Anthony Appleyard 16:43, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

• Wikipedia is not a dictionary. The word "pegging" is only significant enough for its own encyclopedia article when it comes to this definition, logically, the word should redirect here. Your personal opinion of which things are "odd" should have no bearing whatsoever on the structure of an encyclopedia. Joie de Vivre 17:00, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

• If this article were not on a sexual subject, there would be no controversy. The question we need to address is "Should Wikipedia protect users from seeing adult-oriented pages by accident?". Should we be concerned by a child finding this page while searching for information on pegging(UK)/staking(US) out a tent? Wikipedia has a clear policy of non-censorship, which is mentioned in the list of perennial proposals at the Village pump. However, I personally feel that it should be made as difficult as possible for users to open an adult-themed page unintentionally. If a child goes to Wikipedia and types the word blowjob, Wikipedia is not responsible for compromising the child's innocence; the child almost certainly knows the word is naughty, and would not have difficulty satisfying his/her curiosity elsewhere on the internet. Pegging is different, and there may be a case for keeping a disambiguation page to say "is this really what you want?" before you see the interesting pictures. Such a policy would not constitute censorship in my view, provided the content remains accessible to those who actually want it. However, this is really an issue beyond the scope of this talk page. Mtford 08:13, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

• I would say no, wikipedia should not make any effort whatsoever to "protect" people. Until someone comes up with a good argument that accidentally finding adult pages will harm people, people do not need to be protected from them. However, as to the name of the article... Using the good old google test, 'pegging dildo OR strapon OR anal OR sex OR strap-on' finds 213K results, 'tent pegging' (both a sport and what you do to pitch a tent; I don't know a query to make google only find one or the other) finds 77K results, 'cribbage pegging' 11K results, 'pegging memory' 120K results, 'garden pegging' 127K results, and 'pegging exchange rate' finds 1.2M results. So, fixed exchange rate is definitely in the lead, and given the large numbers of matches found for other things, having pegging be a disambig page might be best. Of course, pegging alone with no other qualifiers rarely refers to the other definitions... Bushytails 16:02, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

• I agree, a disambiguation page can't hurt. And this is the opinion of a woman who's pegged a number of guys...

• Oppose the move. The dab page is fine as it is; neither usage is so widely known as to make it the default. Mike Christie (talk) 16:29, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Requested move

Rationale: There are only two meanings listed at Pegging (disambiguation); the sexual practice, and a definition for the act of scoring points in cribbage. Google returns 213K for 'pegging dildo OR strapon OR anal OR sex OR strap-on'; while 'cribbage pegging' gets 11K. "Pegging" to describe the sexual practice gets nearly twenty times more Google hits than the cribbage-related definition. Also, an encyclopedia article cannot be written about the act of winning a game of cribbage. There is an encyclopedia article about pegging, so this move is sensible. Joie de Vivre 17:08, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

While I'm all for increasing the visibility of this article, I'm getting the feeling you are pushing an agenda here... Firstly, don't quote people out of context, as you just did. If you quote the whole thing, you'll note a simple search for exchange rate pegging returned six times the matches as did sexual pegging, and broader searches find even more results. Making out it to be clear-cut by ignoring other definitions is poor practice. I'm pretty indifferent about the actual move, but I'm strongly against abusing statistics and misquoting people. Bushytails 18:16, 3 June 2007 (UTC) Oh, and keep in mind that a fair portion of the pegging results are probably porn spam sites, skewing the results higher. Bushytails 18:17, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Quoting people out of context? I went to Google and performed the exact same tests as you just did (to make sure they were correct). No one owns Google results. It's silly to suggest that I'm required to quote your "Google research". =) Come on, now. Joie de Vivre 18:38, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

It's not an agenda. The only reasoning people have given is "that's odd" and "we have to protect the children", both of which are bogus. If there were different articles about different forms of pegging it would be a different scenario. As it is, there is one other definition, and it is far more obscure than the other. There are no other definitions that deserve their own articles, so the parenthetical clarification in Pegging (sexual practice) is totally unnecessary. Joie de Vivre 18:31, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

My reason falls into neither category: I don't think there is a strong priority in usage. Bushytails' point about porn sites skewing the statistics is also plausible, but not necessary to the argument. With regard to the other usage deserving its own article: dabs don't have to point to an article, but can point to sections if required. That doesn't make the dab less appropriate a target for a link. Mike Christie (talk) 18:45, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

There are no sections that describe "pegging" in either Cribbage or Fixed exchange rate, and the latter doesn't mention "pegging" at all. I suppose someone could rush to create sections now to prove a point, but that wouldn't look good. Joie de Vivre 18:47, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Apparently User:Bushytails did recently add multiple definitions to Pegging (disambiguation), but I have reverted these per the Manual of Style (see explanation here). Joie de Vivre 19:54, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Somehow, those two are not the only reasons people have given. As to those two reasons... I nominated strap-on dildo for DYK, complete with a picture for the main page. Needless to say I'm not arguing from either of those two positions. I'm just not convinced this definition of pegging is more popular than any of the _several_ others, and unless there's a clear-cut case, I'm a big fan of disambiguation pages. Bushytails 21:17, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

• Oppose the move. The dab page is fine as it is; neither usage is so widely known as to make it the default. Mike Christie (talk) 18:19, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

The other definition is 1) far more obscure and 2) not worthy of its own article. Joie de Vivre 18:34, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

• Oppose as per User:Mike Christie; plenty of common uses of the term outside of the sexual practice, keeping it as a dab page seems the best solution for the greatest number of readers. --DeLarge 23:34, 8 June 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Regarding "peg", "pegged", and "pegging"

Peg, Pegged and Pegging each have their own disambiguation pages, because the words have different meanings. The only meaning of "pegging" that is a discrete concept, worthy of its own encyclopedia article, is that found at Pegging (sexual practice). We have a dictionary definition, that is mentioned only in passing in a related encyclopedia article (pegging as regards to Cribbage), and a dicdef that is not mentioned in the article at all ("pegging" as regards to Fixed exchange rate). These should not stand in the way of properly categorizing this encyclopedia article. Wikipedia is not a dictionary. We are categorizing concepts, not defining words.

Notably, two editors have come forward to express disgust as regards to the subject matter of the article in question. I advise administrators and others to carefully avoid discriminating based on personal taste. Joie de Vivre 18:58, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Recent additions to Pegging (disambiguation)

User:Bushytails recently added multiple definitions to Pegging (disambiguation). I have reverted these to comply with the Manual of Style:

The relevant section of the Manual of Style is found here. Per that section, the following additions are not appropriate, because "pegging" is not mentioned in the linked article of any of them.

• Pegging a currency holds it at a fixed exchange rate.
• A type of memorization system.
• The act of pitching a Tent.
• A gardening procedure to change the shape of plants.

Additionally, Tent pegging was removed because I cannot find any sources that refer to the sport as "pegging". It's either "tent pegging", "tent-pegging" or "tentpegging", never "pegging". Joie de Vivre 19:52, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Allow me to quote the first line of fixed exchange rate: "A fixed exchange rate, sometimes (less commonly) called a pegged exchange rate"... I am sorry the relationship between "pegged" and "pegging" is difficult to see, however it's still the most common usage of the term by a very large factor. Must I remind you that pegging is a relatively new term, that the vast majority of the population has likely never heard of?

However, in the time I'm wasting pointing things out to you, I could be actually writing an article, or benefitting the encyclopedia in more useful ways than keeping one disambig page organized properly. Bushytails 21:10, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Please don't make personal comments; thanks. If you feel that there are better ways you could spend your time, no one is forcing you to spend it here. Moving on...

The word "pegging" on its own does not refer to exchange rates; contextual phrasing is necessary. There is nothing in the MOS that says that parts of phrases which are not mentioned in related articles must be considered of equal importance to discrete encyclopedic concepts. The word "pegging", on its own, without any qualifiers, refers to the sexual act. Infrequently, it refers to scoring points in cribbage. Never on its own does it refer to exchange rates.

Think about it, if someone is looking up fixed exchange rates, and they know it as a "pegged rate", they are going to look up "pegged rate", or "currency peg", not just the word "pegging" on its own. No one is going to say "Thailand employed this method of pegging". No one would understand. They are going to say "Thailand employed this method of pegging its exchange rate." Why? Because "pegging" on its own does not refer to exchange rates. You have to specify that it's an exchange rate for people to know what you're talking about. What's more, when it comes to exchange rates, "pegging" is essentially a slang term; Pegged exchange rate redirects to Fixed exchange rate.

You are comparing a slang term in a rarely-used verb tense to a discrete concept of such relevance that it has its own article. They are not of comparable relevance. Moving Pegging (sexual practice) to Pegging and placing a link to the disambiguation page is an appropriate solution. Joie de Vivre 01:02, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.