Wikipedia:Peer review/York City F.C./archive1

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Contents 1 York City F.C. 1.1 Comments by Bigmike 1.2 Comments by Qwghlm 1.3 Comments by Daddy Kindsoul 1.4 Comments from The Rambling Man

[edit] York City F.C.

I am hoping to get this to FAC sometime. I was wandering if there is anything more that needs adding. Mattythewhite 19:09, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Comments by Bigmike

Ten out of ten for effort in improving this article! Check out the other football club featured articles, such as Arsenal, Sheffield Wednesday and Ipswich Town to get an indication of what is required for a FA. Some of these points were suggested to me when I peer-reviewed Hereford United F.C.. Bigmike 23:17, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

• The history section needs its own article (i.e. History of York City F.C.), so that the section appearing in the main article can be shortened. I've had a look at the other featured articles and their history sections average about 1,000 words. Also I think the prose needs improving in certain parts of the history section, particularly the Division Yo-Yoing bit.

  Y Done History article created and main history section shortened. Mattythewhite 21:25, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

• The Supporters section needs to be expanded beyond one sentence.

  Y Done Expanded. Mattythewhite 21:25, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

• Personally I would trim the Staff section to only footballing staff.

  Y Done Trimmed. Mattythewhite 21:25, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

• The notable players section needs criteria for notability.

  Y Done List of York City F.C. players gives criteria for notable players. Mattythewhite 21:25, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

• The managerial history needs to be converted into a table, containing names, dates and statistics.

  Y Done Mattythewhite 19:44, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

• Are there any books on York City that could be used as references?

  Y Done Book reference given. Mattythewhite 21:25, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

• Remove the red links, alternatively create the respective articles.

  Y Done Mattythewhite 21:25, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Hope this helps. Bigmike 23:17, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

• Thanks for the suggesions, I'm working on them right now. -- Mattythewhite 10:44, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

• Comment Try and combine the short paragraphs of 2 senteces, 3 lines etc into full flowing paragraphs.-- Zleitzen^(talk) 17:48, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Comments by Qwghlm

• Be consistent in use of singular/plural - either is fine but stick to one.
• I would put the "Some sources state" sentence after the sentence about the club's foundation - that way a definite fact is followed by a partially-verified statement.

  Y Done Mattythewhite 09:02, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

• I actually think you don't need to reference every sentence with a footnote; easily-verified and non-controversial information such as movements between divisions are not necessary. The red & blue NET footnote could just become a general reference.

  Y Done 09:29, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

• The whole history section should be a lot shorter.

  Y Done I've shortened down the history section. Mattythewhite 09:02, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

• The prose is quite halting, a lot of the sentences are a bit stubby and could be joined together, e.g.

York were elected to the Football League in 1929. They originally played at Fulfordgate, from 1921-1932. York moved to their present home of Bootham Crescent in the summer of 1932.

really could be better, expand the first sentence (perhaps worth mentioning who York replace when they joined the League and the reasons for their election?) and merge the second and third together.

• Y Done Merged sentences and I've got more sorted out. Mattythewhite 09:02, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

• Be consistent and use hyphens not slashes in seasons e.g. 1949-50 instead of 1949/50. Use endashes if you want to be ultra-correct.

  Y Done Mattythewhite 09:02, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

• The paragraphs detailing the placings in the Third and Fourth Divisions in the 1960s and 70s becomes very hard to read very quickly - summarise it without going into too much boring details.

  Y Done Mattythewhite 09:02, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

• The verb "to resign" is active, never passive. Ditto "to fold", when concerned with a company folding.

  Y Done Mattythewhite 09:30, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

• I'd put the information about the crest into a section of its own.

  Y Done Just looking for some references now. Mattythewhite 09:02, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

• "In the clubs first season (1922-23), maroon shirts were worn, with white shorts and black socks. In the 1930's..." - "club's" should have an apostrophe, "1930s" should not.

  Y Done Mattythewhite 09:02, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

• Staff section should be cut down, I would just have the coaching team and the board listed. The flags don't look right either, consider removing them (see WP:FLAG, which is not policy but worth bearing in mind)

  Y Done Mattythewhite 09:02, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

There's probably a few more minor ones but those are the main ones. The main issue is the prose in the History section - it needs to be more concise, and the sentences should flow together better. The manual of style's notes on summary style and guide to writing better articles are useful resources in restructuring prose to.

[edit] Comments by Daddy Kindsoul

• I would strongly argue that the history doesn't need its own article. The club isn't that large and it takes away from the quality of the article itself to stuff all the informative filling into another article, I mean premiership clubs such as Aston Villa F.C., Tottenham Hotspur F.C., Blackburn Rovers F.C., Fulham F.C. don't have that. - Daddy Kindsoul 19:26, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

Yes, but thats because they haven't had intensive work done on them. -- Mattythewhite 20:38, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Comments from The Rambling Man

Hey, very good article, a few suggestions you may consider:

• Wikilink the football seasons e.g. 1934–35.

  Y Done Mattythewhite 09:21, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

• One or two very short paragraphs - try aiming for five or six paragraphs in History.

  Y Done I've got it down to eight right now; I don't think I can get it down much more now. Mattythewhite 09:21, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

• More citations e.g. their high league finishes in 1953 and 1954 could be cited.

  Y Done Mattythewhite 09:38, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

• I usually write numbers below 10 in words (e.g. "five years" instead of "5 years")

  Y Done Mattythewhite 09:37, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

• History suffers a bit from recentism - 6 paragraphs from the 90s onwards compared with 6 paragraphs from 1903 to 1980.

  Y Done I think I've more or less got this sorted out after merging the paragraphs. Mattythewhite 09:39, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

• Bottom of the league is bottom, I don't think it needs to be qualified as "24th place".

  Y Done Removed "24th place" comment. Mattythewhite 09:21, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

• No citations in Crest section.

  Y Done References added Mattythewhite 16:08, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

• Consider merging small paragraphs in both Crest and Colours section.

  Y Done I've done one, but I don't think any more need doing. Mattythewhite 16:45, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

• I don't think you need to reference the same footnote for five consecutive sentences (e.g. [3]) In fact, I think [22] is cited 17 times in a row... just add the cite at the end of the last relevant sentence.

  Y Done Mattythewhite 09:30, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

• Merge the small sentences in Support and Records sections.

  Y Done Mattythewhite 09:21, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

• Trim external links down, heed WP:EL.

  Y Done Mattythewhite 09:21, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

Hope that helps, let me know if you want anything more, or any help getting the article ready for FA nomination. The Rambling Man 16:51, 15 April 2007 (UTC)